Issues with TASCAM TSR-8

T

terribletraffic

New member
Hi guys,
I've been recording with my Tascam tsr-8 for a few weeks and its been working really well. I had to buy some brand new tape (3 of them) - RMG SM900 - and I've been using the first reel of it, all working well. Then yesterday, i started using the second, having transferred the tape from the pancake on to a good metal reel. shell, but in order to do that, I had to take some AMPEX 456 (year made was 1992) off its nice metal reel shell, and i just played the tape on to another pancake, because i hate throwing stuff away, even though i know the tape is unusable. Obviously, i got loads of oxide on the heads because of that, but i washed it off with isopropyl and cotton buds. The heads were then clean, looking like they did before, when i was recording on it before I did this swap around. Then I got to recording on to this second reel and it is just either not recording on to certain tracks, or playback will start and then it will just suddenly stop, but the reels keep spinning, and i know that my recording was absolutely fine because the LEDs were working. WHats going on??

Then, I have just been trying to work out the problem, so went back to the first reel of tape that I bought, that i know works, and began to do the test oscilater check on it, recording the signal on to each channel individually, and they are all recording but the signal that is playing back is around -7/-5db for channels 1 to 7, when i put the signal in at -3db. BUT then on channel 8, when I put the signal in to that one, the signal is absolutely full, as in up at +6, and I have checked the wires, and have not changed any of the levels of the oscillator. I record that, and it comes back just as hot.
Anyone got any ideas??????
 
Track 8 is special since it's often used for timecodes.

Check the back of the machine. There is a 3-way switch which changes the sensitivity of track 8 - make sure it's set to -10. If it's been changed to something else you'll get a very different response to the other channels.

Also, are you using DBX? If so, DBX will be disabled on track 8 if the SYNC LOCK button is enabled since DBX can mess up timecodes. The DBX and SYNC LOCK state isn't saved when the machine is powered down, so if you record something with any of those settings set you'll need to remember to set them back up before playback.
 
Don't mean to be a bummer, but that machine, in its factory configuration, is set up to give the correct level of bias for 456 or SM911 only. (It's a 2-head machine, making it a serious chore to recalibrate. Most of the ones I see at work appear never to have been calibrated.)

SM900 (and ATR tape and GP9, etc) take a much higher level of bias, and if you record on them with a deck set up for 456/911 the result will be a low signal as you described and an incorrect frequency response, which will cause the dbx NR to mistrack severely (and sound gated/mushy) if you choose to use it. Exchange that unused pancake for SM911 if you can - and don't dispose of sticky tape by running it over your heads, unscrew the flanges from the hub and swap out the pancake that way. It's easy to avoid spilling one as long as you keep it horizontal and slide it out of the box onto the new flange. They are wound pretty tightly in the first place.

Just trash the old 456, weirdos on other forums might think you can use it again by baking it or smearing car polish all over it, but it's really not worth the pain (and head wear).

jpmorris is correct about the ch.8 input level switch, I have seen that issue many times.

I'm not sure precisely what would cause your issue with playback dropping out. The TSR-8 is somewhat prone to developing cold solder joints on the pin connectors for the amp cards and motherboard, though not as badly as the 32/34/38. Make sure your heads are scrupulously clean, sticky shed residue can be extremely difficult to remove completely.
 
Thanks so much for both responses.
Can anyone point me in the direction of somewhere that explains Bias, in fairly simple terms. I don't really get it. And also, pdmiller, not totally understanding what you mean about how to change the tape on to another reel. Not too sure what you mean by flange! so sorry to sound like a total dummy. thanks so much for all your help
 
Bias is a very high level AC signal (above 100KHz in most cases) applied to the record head along with the audio.
The purpose is to linearize the transfer function of the recording process - without it, the tape would be magnetized only in response to very high level signals, which would be greatly distorted. The consequence of too little bias is low playback level, weak bass response and excessive distortion. Some people might like this sound but it isn't technically correct.
There are newer (~1990s) tapes designed to be recorded at higher levels than normal, and thus provide an improved signal to ratio (ATR, SM900, GP9 are some) but an increased amount of bias is required to achieve this. Some older and consumer grade machines can't output enough bias to record on these tapes properly, at least not without modification (many Tascams included).

Some good illustrations here

The flanges are just the flat metal parts that make up the sides of the reel. On any standard NAB reel they can be unscrewed from the hub (but I have seen some precision reels that were riveted and couldn't be disassembled). When you buy a pancake of tape you are just buying a NAB reel without any flanges or screws. For some reason a set of flanges now costs almost as much as a pancake of 1/4" tape, so this is a good thing if you have a bunch of junk reels you can re-use.
 
Thanks PD for the links and description....it's a bit clearer now.......in a few years I might actually understand it.:thumbs up:
Al
 
And, any clues why the my second reel of tape was acting up when recording on to it. Heads look fine, squeaky clean, but the recordings were being very temporamental. Some channels just didn't work? Is that likely to be a bad tape, or something wrong with the machine?
I get that perhaps the machine isn't made for SM900, it would prefer 911, but in theory, that shouldn't effect whether or not it records? The first reel was fine!
Sorry to keep pesterring
 
terribletraffic said:
And, any clues why the my second reel of tape was acting up when recording on to it. Heads look fine, squeaky clean, but the recordings were being very temporamental. Some channels just didn't work? Is that likely to be a bad tape, or something wrong with the machine?
Click to expand...

What was the second tape? Was it dodgy 456, or RMGI stuff? If it's 456 I'd be tempted to assume it's the tape. Otherwise it's more likely to be the machine.

If so, that might mean that the audio cards want re-seating in case the connections have gone bad, or it might be something a bit more complex like the dry joints Mr. Millar mentioned.

That said, an interesting point is whether the recording drops out at the same place on playback every time. If so, it's the recording that's knackered, not the playback. And that could have been a problem with clogged heads or suchlike.
Something I've just noticed in your original message was the line "i know that my recording was absolutely fine because the LEDs were working." Sadly that's not the case on this machine - the meters show the input while recording, not the recorded signal.
That's because the TSR-8 is a 2-head machine - one for erase, one for recording OR playback. On a 3-head deck, you get erase, recording AND playback so it could be made to monitor the recording itself (also handy for tape delay), but sadly on the TSR-8 you don't have any way of monitoring the recording until you play it back afterwards. That's the machine's one weakness, IMHO.
 
I've just had another issue with this machine of mine,
I took off the plastic head protector and cleaned the heads really thoroughly, then put it back on. The tape sounded way better which is good news BUT there was a strange noise being made by the reels/tape, and I noticed once I had taken off the reels that there was a slit that the tape had cut through the plastic before it gets to the heads! What has happened?? I tightened the screws up, just in case, but the tape is still touching the plastic of the head protector.....
I fear I could well have ruined one of my new reels becuase there was a shed load of oxide where the slit had been made....
I dont want to make that mistake again. Why is everything that I own breaking on me in the space of a week?!
 
Look at the back of the head cover and you'll find two plastic tabs. There are two matching holes, and what you've almost certainly done is forgotten to put them back in the holes when replacing the cover.
(I know this from experience)
 
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