For DIY guys: BDDB-4x2 tube mixer/preamp/driver project

Dr ZEE

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Hi, guys...
this is for people who are into DIY stuff in the analog/vintage/tube-gear area.
**********
I've set up a section oa the site for this project, so check it out if you may be interested. (no sound-samples page yet... some day. hopefully... :) )
**********
The unit is tube 4 channel mic mixer 're-configurable' in pairs to Line Mixer plus independent Preamp/Driver channel(s). It is based on rather heavily modified vintage Bogen Communications div. Tube mixer unit (MX-6A E-14).

links:
Dr. ZEE Workshop BDDB-4x2 Project In The Making Page (there you'll see list of links to view photos / charts and detailed explanations with diagrams etc.)

BDDB-4x2 (general presentation page)

Here's direct link to Circuit Schematics Diagram and Control Panel Diagram (.gif file)

Here's In The Shop Photo Gallery (direct link, .jpg file)

Q(s), suggestions, comments or just Blahs - pls, post here :)
********
note: BDDB - stands for Blind Driver Deaf Blender (which is just a silly name I've assigned to this thing)
 

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Pretty...............
WOW.
I just followed the links.
Would you mind doing that to my television?
Wood, valves, mesh, Knobs & switches, all that's missing is an interoscitor.
Excellent stuff except I'm sitting infront of a pressed metal & plastic Dell comp. & feel entirely inadequate.
Cheers
rayC
 
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rayc said:
Pretty...............
WOW.
I just followed the links.
Would you mind doing that to my television?
heh heh... thanks! :D
You see, the problem with "interocitor" of today is that when I see what's on it when it's ON I want to turn it OFF. So the only tool I could use to "upgrade" a TV would be something like one of THESE :D

rayc said:
... I'm sitting infront of a pressed metal & plastic Dell comp. & feel entirely inadequate.
ahhhh. same here... except, mine has sony logo on it .... and it's cheaply printed on plastic... :(
 
Nice job Dr Zee - once again an impressive looking unit. The detail of the finishing, cabinets etc are particularly cool - very much in keeping with the 'vintage' feel without some of the overly industrial look of the original mixer, if you understand what I mean.

Just a couple of quickies on the electronics - I'm not an expert but have learned a lot researching repairs etc on a couple of vintage units I have here:

Caps - I see you replaced one, I assume you checked the rest to make sure they weren't leaky, electrolytics and certain moulded ones (Hunts from memory, plus paper types) are prime candidates for replacement. Low value ceramics etc are probably fine.

Resistors - a lot of them look original, apparently it pays to check the values etc to make sure they're still within tolerances.

Selenium rectifier - apparently they can fail (and make a rather nasty smell when they do!) - can be replaced by a 1N4007 diode with a series resistor to bring the voltage back down to spec (check the power rating) and a small value cap across them.

Anyway a really nice job - I wish I had your wood/metal work skills!
 
arjoll said:
Nice job Dr Zee - once again an impressive looking unit. The detail of the finishing, cabinets etc are particularly cool - very much in keeping with the 'vintage' feel without some of the overly industrial look of the original mixer, if you understand what I mean.

Just a couple of quickies on the electronics - I'm not an expert but have learned a lot researching repairs etc on a couple of vintage units I have here:

Caps - I see you replaced one, I assume you checked the rest to make sure they weren't leaky, electrolytics and certain moulded ones (Hunts from memory, plus paper types) are prime candidates for replacement. Low value ceramics etc are probably fine.

Resistors - a lot of them look original, apparently it pays to check the values etc to make sure they're still within tolerances.

Selenium rectifier - apparently they can fail (and make a rather nasty smell when they do!) - can be replaced by a 1N4007 diode with a series resistor to bring the voltage back down to spec (check the power rating) and a small value cap across them.

Anyway a really nice job - I wish I had your wood/metal work skills!

First of all thanks a ton for taking time looking into details and all your thoughtful suggestions. I'm no expert at all myself, btw... as a matter of fact I really know nothing, with exceptions of few things I've got my hands on... sort of :rolleyes: And, from what I know all you suggestions are right on target.
Now, here's the strange thing. I am not really sure how to explain this and the same time to make sense... well, I'll try. :D
To begin with, I've got that thing without having any idea what's in it... it's was a parts-item with no description what so ever, just a photo. So I've got it, took a look, figured it can be powered up - took a chance, did it and figured that the unit actually functional (the original preamp/mixer unit, that is)... so then I've checked it through with no knowledge and no schematics on hands.... and I've got that idea to make something out of it... first I just wanted to make some funky enclosure for it, but then, I've got that idea, that those two tubes (mic inputs preamp stages) could be used for something else if(when) the mixer is used for line-inputs.... it just looked to me like a waste of hot tubes ... LOL...., you know, similar to channel's mute/ALT-3/4 idea... when it's in "mute" mode, why waste it? :p

So then I've done bunch of reserch about details etc... and yes, all the suggestions you've mentioned and some more came to my attention, and I actually started moving toward "implementing" all those good things, but at some point I've said to my self: "Wait a minute! What's the point, then? What am I doing?"... it's like building everything almost from scratch (from new parts... that is)", and that was not what I wanted to do in this project (instead, I may some day build something else, maybe similar from scratch) ... So I've decided NOT to replace anything, unless it really really has to be done, so to keep its originality and characted as much as it is possible. On the other hand it is really hard to make up mind on what is REALLY has to be done, not to mention the fact, that tube circuits (which look so simple, huh :cool: ) are very strange creatures... they are like living beings in a sense - touch any thing there a little - and it will react.
Now, the power supply filter multi-cap may need to be replaced. I am considering that.
And the selenium rectifire issue... hah hah - good one. I've read about some projects, where guys would replace it in the circuit, while keepping it physically on the chassis to keep the original look, hah hah, like a monument for a dead hero :D Also I've read those stories and warnings ala "It's not a question of wheather or not it will fail, but rather - when it will fail". OK, now... I've got it :) , however I never read a single story about "It actually failing". I guess everybody avoided it by following the word of wisdom :), while I'm taking bad chances here. And the smell is nothing ( :D :eek: :eek: ) comparing to something like this:
What is going to happen to your vintage H.H. Scott amplifier's output tubes if all of a sudden it looses all of its negative grid bias or DC filament voltage in the preamp section? You can probably guess.

Output tubes will draw too much current and overheat causing the output tubes' plates to turn red or orange. At the very least, you may be looking at replacing hard to get NOS (expensive) tubes. Allowing any amp to operate in this condition for very long will destroy the output transformers. That should get your accountant's attention!
that was from H.H. Scott website.
Well, I am thinking about replacing that thing seriously, though. As a matter of fact the whole main power supply section is kinda "questionable" and sure is upgradable.
You see, again... it's an issue of keepping ballance between improvement and authenticity. Not easy one imho.

thanks a bunch again, I appreciate you paying attention to the details and your comments. - :cool: :cool: :cool:
/respects
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and now it's time for commercial break:
:D :D :D
we'll be back, don't go anywhere ;)
 

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Dr ZEE said:
I've said to my self: "Wait a minute! What's the point, then? What am I doing?"... it's like building everything almost from scratch (from new parts... that is)", and that was not what I wanted to do in this project (instead, I may some day build something else, maybe similar from scratch) ... So I've decided NOT to replace anything, unless it really really has to be done, so to keep its originality and characted as much as it is possible.
I understand what you're saying - keeping it authentic. Also has the advantage of costing less ;) Just some of the issues some 'real' valve/tube guys (restorers) have pointed out to me, potential problems with some caps which can fail and what they take down with them, issues from high value resistors etc. If the main smoothing cap goes down you have potentially lost the mains transformer and rectifier. There's another one usually in the output stage (probably more the case with power amps though) which can take out the output valve and transformer if it goes.

www.vintage-radio.com said:
A very common fault is a leaky grid coupling capacitor (C54). This would cause the control grid to be at a potential above 0V, which alters the biasing of the valve causing it to draw excessive current. This problem is so common and familiar that Radiophile magazine and many restorers refer to it as "THAT Capacitor". This is one capacitor I nearly always replace, often before I apply power to the set for the first time.

If the problem is ignored, it will get progressively worse until the valve fails, often destroying the output transformer in the process. Be sure to check this point even if the set appears to be working correctly. It is a simple matter to measure the voltage across the resistor with a digital meter. If there is any voltage here, the capacitor must be replaced.
(note, for those of us outside North America 'valve' means 'tube')

Saying all this I did power up the old Ferrograph without taking any of this into account and its fine. I will probably replace the troublesome caps now that I've found a reliable NZ supplier of high voltage caps.

Dr ZEE said:
And the selenium rectifire issue... hah hah - good one. I've read about some projects, where guys would replace it in the circuit, while keepping it physically on the chassis to keep the original look, hah hah, like a monument for a dead hero :D
Have you seen what restorers will do with caps? They often gut older electrolytic cans (messy! :eek: ) and put modern components in them. There's an example here of the lengths you can go to to look authentic!

Dr ZEE said:
Also I've read those stories and warnings ala "It's not a question of wheather or not it will fail, but rather - when it will fail". OK, now... I've got it :) , however I never read a single story about "It actually failing". I guess everybody avoided it by following the word of wisdom :), while I'm taking bad chances here.
I've seen a couple about ones that have already failed, it happens but it seems that they often just keep going. Its just a simple fix. The issue is whether it fails safe or not - I'm not sure.

Dr ZEE said:
You see, again... it's an issue of keepping ballance between improvement and authenticity. Not easy one imho.
I understand what you're saying. Sounds like you're on the right track. And again, a damn nice project!
 
Dr ZEE said:
Hi, guys...
this is for people who are into DIY stuff in the analog/vintage/tube-gear area.
**********
I've set up a section oa the site for this project, so check it out if you may be interested. (no sound-samples page yet... some day. hopefully... :) )
**********
The unit is tube 4 channel mic mixer 're-configurable' in pairs to Line Mixer plus independent Preamp/Driver channel(s). It is based on rather heavily modified vintage Bogen Communications div. Tube mixer unit (MX-6A E-14).

links:
Dr. ZEE Workshop BDDB-4x2 Project In The Making Page (there you'll see list of links to view photos / charts and detailed explanations with diagrams etc.)

BDDB-4x2 (general presentation page)

Here's direct link to Circuit Schematics Diagram and Control Panel Diagram (.gif file)

Here's In The Shop Photo Gallery (direct link, .jpg file)

Q(s), suggestions, comments or just Blahs - pls, post here :)
********
note: BDDB - stands for Blind Driver Deaf Blender (which is just a silly name I've assigned to this thing)


All I can say is WOW!! I am unworthy! :D
 
Andrew, thanks again for input. I of course have done some bassic check through, that's all I can do really... checking voltage points and stuff like that ( as shown at this chart).
I am thinking of maybe getting some tools/test equipment ...well, maybe , because, also.. hah hah... there's another "point of balance" for me to keep eye on, sort of speak, and it's that I have to kind of stay on track of being a "music maker" and not a "gear builder" .... see what I mean?, another words, making these things shall be in service of making music and not in service of making these things :D
HUH! stuffing an old cap's cup with "bread crumbs and onions" is COOL!!!!!!!! :D :cool: :D
*********
Daniel! Thanks , man!
and would you, pls, cut it out .... with that "unworthy shtick" :D :D
 
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