Best Way to sync a TSR-8 to DAW (Cubase Le)

S

sherm_jonathan

New member
Hello All,
This isn't totally an analog-centric question - my apologies - but I'm looking for the easiest and/or cheapest way to sync a TSR-8 to a DAW (Cubase Le). I don't think I care whether the TSR-8 chases Cubase or the other way around. I just want to be able to record and then mix simultaneously on both. I've done a little research on this but came up with conflicting answers. My interface is a Presonus Firepod. Do I need a midiizer? Is there something newer that would work better, or do I even need anything additional at all? Many thanks to anyone who can help.

Jonathan
 
The more simple inexpensive way is to have the TSR-8 as master. Can Cubase LE sync to incomming MIDI timecode?
 
sweetbeats said:
The more simple inexpensive way is to have the TSR-8 as master. Can Cubase LE sync to incomming MIDI timecode?
Click to expand...
If not, he's been had...

Generally you do need extra hardware to get them to sync. It might be possible these days for Cubase to realtime decode an SMPTE/MTC stripe in software, but don't bank on it actually doing that. Find out if possible.

If it doesn't, you'll need a MIDI timecode reader - a search on ebay for "midi tape sync" is usually plentiful. Look for something like the Rees TS-1 or JL Cooper boxes. These will generate a timecode signal which you record on track 8. When it plays back, it will generate a MIDI-compatible timecode, which you stick into your MIDI interface. Cubase should be able to take it from there.
 
Thanks for the responses guys/gals. It looks like Cubase LE only accepts MIDI time, so I'll need to pick up one of those boxes. Now here's another question: with the time-code reader, is it better to have Cubase as master or the reel-to-reel? Is it possible to have 'locaters,' meaning that if I skip ahead on one of the devices, turn-off/reset the reel-to-reel or relocate tracks on Cubase, etc., the time-code reader will be able to find the location for the other device, either manually or by me inputting information? Thanks again for the insight.
 
Hi,

Be careful, mtc is not accurate enough to lock machines, you will find it will drift over the length of the song, mtc is fine for running midi devices but not for locking machines.

You need smpte time code on the TSR, then you need a device that reads the smpte and generates word clock. Then you can lock the computer (cubase) to the word clock as there will be an option somewhere for external clock.

Fortunately these types of devices are getting cheaper on the secondhand market.

Cheers

Alan.

p.s always use the analog machine as master, if you don't when you hit play on the computer you have to wait around until the analog machine finds the location and locks up to play. If the analog machine is master, as soon as you hit play on the analog machine the computer will locate and play within milliseconds. You will also need an additional synchronizer to lock the analog machine to incoming smpte. The TSR has a couple of location points that you can set.
 
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Yes, IMO it's best to use the analog deck as master.

MTC will be as accurate as the device reading it. Some DAWs lock better than others. Also the way the sync box behaves will have an impact. I've never had any problems with J.L. Cooper products, like the PPS-2.
 
Beck said:
Yes, IMO it's best to use the analog deck as master.

MTC will be as accurate as the device reading it. Some DAWs lock better than others. Also the way the sync box behaves will have an impact. I've never had any problems with J.L. Cooper products, like the PPS-2.
Click to expand...

I too have the JL Cooper PPS-2 and have had great success using it. :)
 
Great, thanks everyone for the advice. Alan, I'm confused on why I would need 2 synchronizers. Don't I just stripe the tape with smpte with the synchronizer and then have the sync convert it to word clock (is this the same as MTC?) for the DAW? If I understand it correctly, then I only need one, I hope. Please let me know if I'm wrong.

Also, anyone know the answer to my 'locater' question in my last post? If not, I'll hold my tongue on that one! Thanks again for the help.
 
Hi,

What I meant about 2 synchronizers related to if you wanted the TSR to be a slave, and the type of synchronizer need is different beast. The TSR can't read incoming smpte and sync to it.

There are synchronizing devices that read the smpte and convert the information to machine control information, these plugged into the serial ports on the back of the TSR. It was designed in the days when there were 2 tape machines synced. When you pushed rewind on the master, the slave would also rewind. Then when you pushed play (master) the slave would also stop rewinding and go into play. The synchronizer would then compare the position of the slave compared to the master tape position and adjust the speed of the slave to line the positions up. When the position matched the machines would lock. This could take 20 to 30 seconds to happen so you needed plenty of lead up to the part you were working on. This is why when using a Dew you make the tape machine the master, the dew locks almost instantly.

The reason I said that a synchronizer that produces word clock is better than using MTC is that when you use word clock the synchronization is sample accurate, no drift. So if you can find a secondhand synchronizer that reads smpte and produces word clock, and if your computer / software can lock to an external clock, you will have a more accurate synchronization. I have had experience with mtc where the synchronization has gone out buy a fraction of a beat when playing back a 4 min song from beginning to end. I admit that this was quite a few years ago so things may have improved. I only use a stand alone digital recorder now (tascam MX2424) and this has smpte in with an inbuilt word clock so it locks perfectly to the smpte from the analog machine.

Cheers

Alan.
 
I'm not sure Cubase Le can slave to SMPTE/MTC.

I bought a cheapo closeout version of Cubase a few years ago, but am not sure if it was Le or Se. Either way, my manual said that the version I had could act as a master, but not a slave.

Cool Edit Pro 2.0 will slave to MTC, but it's a pain in the butt because you have to constantly re-arm the MIDI trigger. What I mean is, after you arm Cool Edit to wait for an incoming midi signal, everything will work, but after you hit stop on the tape machine, you have to re-arm Cool Edit to wait for the signal again. This doesn't sound so bad, but believe me, it's a hassle. I'm not sure if Adobe has corrected this in later versions of the software.

If you're looking for an inexpensive piece of software that will slave to MTC, check out N-Track. N-Track does not have to be constantly re-armed.

I own a JL Cooper but have always used the Midiizer. I plan on using the PPS-2 in my classroom studio soon to sync a Tascam 464 and a Tascam 788, but until then I've yet to use it.

-MD
 
Pro Tools LE, Logic, & Nuendo were syncing to MTC / SMPTE years ago, maybe the cut down DAW software programs don't have this feature?

I've used all the above slaved with tape sync. Also do a search as we've talked about this subject before in detail
 
Cubase Le has a 'synchronization setup' where it allows one to set it to receive MTC from a selected source as well and it has another option to sync it to an ASIO device, which I don't really understand exactly. It also has another entry in the drop down menu for "external sync", though when you click this it only checks it, it does not open up a setup dialogue like the above option. So, naturally, I don't know exactly what this means either (surprise). Thanks all
 
Simplest setup...get a JL Cooper PPS2, stripe track 8 on the TSR-8, connect MIDI cable to your computer MIDI interface and set Cubase to sync to MTC, TSR-8 is master.

The ASIO sync tells the computer digital clock to reference your audio interface clock which is the clock in the Firepod which uses an ASIO driver. Does the Firepod have MIDI I/O?
 
I have the option of purchasing a JL Cooper PPS-100 for $50 or bidding on a PPS-2, starting at $25. Which should I do? Also, there's a PPS-1 on the block, though I'm not sure that will even work for my purposes. What would you do?
 
Go for the PPS-100 at that price. I have one of those too and it has tons of features for different types of synchro... very nice!

Any of the ones you mentioned will work, including the original PPS-1.

:)
 
That sounds nice too, but pricewise, I'll probably wind up with the PPS-100, unless you can tell me something the Microlynx does that the PPS-100 doesn't, which I absolutely must have. Either way, this has been a very helpful post, thanks all!
 
Wow. Last time I was looking for a MicroLynx I couldn't find one for less than a grand (which was close to $2000 USD at the time). The Lynx machines are serious business... assuming you can make up the correct cables, they're able to make the tape deck slave to the computer, or another tape deck.

It's most likely overkill for what you're doing at the moment, but if you're ever planning to lock two TSR-8s together or something (and assuming the thing works), grab it.
 
Sounds like I may be getting in over my head, but what do you mean by making up the right cables? Is this one of those situations where the cables don't exist anymore and need to built? Perhaps I'm facing this situation anyways with the pps-100, for I need to get it into the TSR 8 somehow...
 
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