Analog Tape Industry Research Project

M

Muckelroy

Member
Hello everyone,

I am about to embark on a research project on the effects of digital technology on companies that manufacture analog tape. It's gotta be legitimate, and so I figured, what better topic to elaborate on than this?

I'm looking for the following data and am having a hard time finding it:

-- I'm looking for data on annual revenues of the primary companies that produced analog magnetic audio tape over a period of 20 years. Companies like 3M/Scotch, EMTEC/BASF, Ampex/Quantegy, Zonal, RMGI and ATR Magnetics. Obviously not all of these companies were in the analog tape industry throughout the entire 20 year period. Ideally I'd like just the revenue numbers only include the revenue from analog tape sales of these companies. Any ideas on if this data is formally published anywhere?

-- Also I'm looking for the average cost of 24-track multitrack analog, versus 24-track multitrack digital recording equipment (new machines, retail value, averaged) across several major manufacturers over that same 20 year period. To make this figure reasonable, I think that if I can figure out a way to multiply the cost of the machine by a factor of cost-per-hour for the media (i.e. factor in the cost per hour of 2" tape, versus the cost-per-hour of using up hard disk space, or the cost of the hard disk).

I haven't decided which 20 year period to focus around, but I was thinking maybe 1980 to 2000, or something along those lines.

If you guys know of any resources that may help, I'd highly appreciate it.
 
Wow...this is an interesting biggie of a topic. I hope we can get some info for you.

One though is that any of those companies that were/are publicly traded would have public records but how you get them and whether or not there is going to be any way to parse out the revenues for the analog tape division is a big question. Keep in mind that there may be dba's for some of these companies or even divisions within an umbrella corp...I'm thinking of Scotch/3M in particular.

I think your 1980 ~ 2000 timeframe is a good bracket.

See what you can get by contacting RMGI and Quantegy. Phil Paske at RMGI might be a good resource and maybe there are shadows of information that can be extrapolated by him or others due to the BASF -> EMTEC -> RMGI lineage.
 
Definitely contact the head of RMG, like Sweetbeats said. RMG seems to be very "open", from what I've read.

Good luck, man. This is a great research project idea. I'm really curious to see what you turn up.

-- Edit: I should have said, "try contacting RMG's USA contact"
 
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I second contacting the companies direct and don't give up if you don't succeed at first. If you can't get through a door, try the window, if you catch my drift. Just tell them you're doing a research project.
 
Gee, in regards to the recorders bit, from the top of my head, Otari made 24 track wide format machines and the Radar system is theirs so they'd be a candidate for direct comparison. Studer made 24 track wide format machines but now only concentrate on digital consoles so a comparison could only be made with another marketer of digital recording technology. I don't recall Tascam making a wide format 24 track machine, only the MSR-24 1" but they do make quite a few digital recorders. Cory'd probably know more about whether they ever made a wide 24 track? Same with Fostex. MCI got bought by Sony in '82 and disappeared. Sony made 24 track 2" machines and digital tape machines but only seem to make the little hand held digital recorders now. Alesis make the 24 channel digital thingo but never made analog machines. There's a link to the Ampex story around here somewhere if I remember?

Looks like it might only be Otari that managed to make the wide format analog to digital recorder transition with any level of success?

Maybe line up all the wide format analog recorder manufacturers you can think of and Google them to see what happened to them or if any are still around in any form.

Here's the ones that I know of without thinking too hard.

Ampex
Otari
Studer
Soundcraft / Brenell**
Sony
MCI
Tascam*
3M*
Telefunken***
Studio Magnetics***
Lyrec***
Trident****
APD****
Stephens*


Any additions to the list lads?

G
 
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ATR80-24 is a Tascam 2" machine.

3M is another 2" transport manufacturer but not sure if they made anything into the 80's...I'm thinking not.

Stephens? Was that just 1" 8-track or 2" 16-track? Scully...don't think they ever did a 24-track though...and I guess not into the 80's.

Hmm...
 
Probably not worth giving to much attention to, but Soundcraft also dipped their toes into R2R at one stage.

:cool:
 
Ausrock & JP are right about the Soundcraft. I had them down as Soundtracs, probably pining for the fields when I had a Soundtracs desk for recording and a Soundcraft for live work. My mistake. :o

Soundtracs out, Soundcraft/Brenell in. There's a 16 track 2" Soundcraft for sale here at he moment for a stupid price.

:)
 
I was going to suggest Lyrec, but they seem to have imploded.
http://www.lyrec.dk - however it seems that someone is going to try and provide support for their products, which is nice.

Telefunken made 24 tracks too, and I think they may still exist, though not in that exact industry.

Studio Magnetics appear to have made computer-controlled 24-track decks such as the AR2400 (maybe their only product?) in the 1980s - I have no clue who they are, though so it's not particularly helpful as they're most likely long gone.
 
I'd check out this book, referenced in this Ampex List post by MRL's Jay McKnight:

"Hello Ampexians,

I just noticed that there is a new (2008) business book about Ampex:
"Winner Take All: How Competitiveness Shapes the Fate of Nations"
(Hardcover) by Richard Elkus. A one-time Ampex manager discusses how
Ampex lost out to Japan (Sony etc) due to bad management (especially
Bill Roberts etc). Available a Amazon.com and elsewhere.
"
 
Stephens (or Stevens?) made a 2" 40-track machine in the latre '60s-early '70s - i believe Leon Russell used one in his Shelter studio. I know the Beach Boys also considered this when upgrading Brian Wilson's home studio in 1969. here is a quote from Stephen Desper, their engineer at the time:

"The first 16tk machine rented was an AMPEX. During the time we were deciding on a tape machine to use long-term, we did rent a STEVENS multi-track from the company with the same name. It used a 2" headstack with 40 heads. Each track was about the size of a cassette tape track. With NR the system wasn't too bad. Stevens was ahead of the times in terms of design. We made some test recordings including some (3 or 4) original tracks using the Steven machine. Given that the Beach Boy style of recording needs either lots of tracks or a machine quiet enough to make several ping-pongs, we were, at that time, deciding which way to go. In the end we elected to not close ourselves out of other studios by using the esoteric Stevens fourty-track machine, but to deal with the problems ping-pongs present as they emerged. We rented the 3M multi-track for a long run, but there were other machines at the house before the 3M was moved in. The 3M had the advantage of greater dynamic range than any other machine of that time. With a greater dynamic range, lower noise base-lines could be adjusted, thus resulting in the ability to do more track moving without increasing the noise levels too much. The captionless/closed-loop tape delivery mechanism was vastly superior to the drag/pressure system used by Ampex in terms of wow and flutter and tape-to-head contact efficiency IMO."

a link about Stephens:

http://mixonline.com/news/john-stephens-obituary-081807/
 
sweetbeats said:
ATR80-24 is a Tascam 2" machine.

3M is another 2" transport manufacturer but not sure if they made anything into the 80's...I'm thinking not.

Stephens? Was that just 1" 8-track or 2" 16-track? Scully...don't think they ever did a 24-track though...and I guess not into the 80's.

Hmm...
Click to expand...

Stephens did a 24T Cory but they all seem to be bespoke one off's and aparently different to each other. As far as I can find, Scully never went bigger than 2" 16 track.
 
sweetbeats said:
A
Stephens? Was that just 1" 8-track or 2" 16-track? Scully...don't think they ever did a 24-track though...and I guess not into the 80's.
Click to expand...

Actually, Stephens Electronics made a lot of 24 track machines. In 2" tape, they made 16 track, 24 track, 32 track and even 40 track machines. There are still a few machines in operation that are 32 frame with 32, 24 and 16 track headstacks. There are still 40 channel machines in operation.

A number of the machines were 2" 16 track as you mention and many of those were used for remote recording, since they were far more compact and far lighter than any other machine with that level of performance (if any other machine can actually be said to operate at that level of performance).

One thing they were noted for was the ability to record at very high levels on the tape. They were also noted for their compactness, their light weight, their stunningly clean and accurate sound and their knack for breaking down in the middle of a really important session. Probably not a good candidate, at this time, to be the centerpiece of a busy commercial studio!

In 1" tape, they mostly made portable 8 tracks that are roughly the size, weight and look of a Tascam 38, but with all the features and audio quality of the larger machines. They also made some 4-track machines and some 2-track machines, but not a lot of those smaller formats.

Cheers,

Otto
 
I just had a very nice chat with Don Morris at RMGI.

He said he could probably find data about EMTEC/BASF's sales in the past, but that it may be very difficult to find any granulation in those numbers about analog audio tape specifically. For example, there is video tape, lots of digital tape, logging tape for audio and data use, along with consumer tape that has been made over the years.

At this point, I'm taking whatever I can get. He said he has some computers that he used back in the BASF days that may still have some of those reports on it, and he'll get back with me.

What makes this whole research project even more confusing is, just because folks are buying way less analog tape doesn't mean that they're physically using the tape less, because there's a great deal of "tape recycling" going on. Tapes are used for tracking analog, then dumped to digital, and then degaussed and re-used all the time. However this will still support my thesis -- without the digital technology, the recording would have to live solely on analog tapes, and people would be forced to buy more tape for more recordings if they wanted to keep the original recordings anywhere besides their memories.

At the same time, there are still those producers out there that will purchase 30 to 60 reels of 2" tape per project. He told me of one client who every 2 weeks purchases 30 reels of 2" 5000' length tape.
 
Muckelroy said:
What makes this whole research project even more confusing is, just because folks are buying way less analog tape doesn't mean that they're physically using the tape less, because there's a great deal of "tape recycling" going on
Click to expand...

I think this is sort of a cyclical problem. Not really a Catch 22, but close. Demand for tape is less today than it used to be, so manufacturers can't achieve an economy of scale, and so tape is more expensive for the consumer to purchase. Because tape is expensive, consumers purchase less tape and use it more, which keeps demand low.

Maybe? Maybe??
 
lo.fi.love said:
I think this is sort of a cyclical problem. Not really a Catch 22, but close. Demand for tape is less today than it used to be, so manufacturers can't achieve an economy of scale, and so tape is more expensive for the consumer to purchase. Because tape is expensive, consumers purchase less tape and use it more, which keeps demand low.

Maybe? Maybe??
Click to expand...

No doubt about that.
 
Muckelroy said:
Analog Tape Industry Research Project
Click to expand...


One thing to keep in mind is that going back 20 years from any point is going to be tricky, as the digital formats have constantly changed. Going back to the 80’s you’re going to see digital reel-to-reel tape first. Multitrack digital open-reel machines were much more expensive than analog in the 80’ and early 90’s. Hard disk recording was around, but limited in 80’s and early 90’s.

Another thing… videotape sales were the chief source of revenue for tape manufacturers from at least late-80’s through 2k. It was the loss of videotape sales, both professional and consumer, that helped pave the way for Quantegy’s bankruptcy in 2005.

I’ve never seen this kind of data split up by class of tape. Not that’s it not out there, but I’ve never run across it. I’ve seen total tape sales in a couple old magazines.

:)
 
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