After seven years of DAW, I will NEVER abandon tape again.

[grimtraveller]

If money was absolutely no object, as a home recorder, I'd still use a digital standalone. I'd use the 16 and 24 track version of the 12 track Akai that I use at the moment. Not because it's digital, but because I like its ease of use and the fact it has varispeed. I don't think that the standalone is better than the computer either. It's not worse, it just is.
When home recorders rag on analog tape and extol the virtues of digital as being better, I don't go long with them unless they are making it clear that they find it better, not that it is intrinsically better.
Personally, I don't think either medium is better. I love what I hear from both. I could care less about the actual medium. It's like Telecasters and Stratocasters. To me, they are guitars. I might prefer one over the other, but I can't say one is intrinsically better.
In terms of equipment, one can't spend one's life going through everything that's out there. So whatever one finds to be better, fine. But to say it is intrinsically so goes nowhere.
Well, most of the time !

 

[grimtraveller]

I'm convinced that many people who are well in the know, are also convinced that the hybrid approach provides the best options, and at the same time removes the need to have any analog vs. digital arguments...

Human beings being what we are, I can see many arguments against hybrid systems. And this time, the opposition would come from both the analog only and digital forever camps. I can see them saying things like "Man up and take a side !" or something daft like that.
United at last !

I think that even saying a choice is purely a matter of preference, implies that for the person making the choice, there is a consideration of what is "better"

Actually, choice isn't always necessarily a matter of preference. It's also worth considering that it can take quite a while for any individual to work out what their preferences actually are.

 

[miroslav]

If money was absolutely no object, as a home recorder, I'd still use a digital standalone.

OK...but you're just addressing the recorder aspect. I was talking about free a roomful of great analog hardware too.
I mean...two sets of buildings...keys to each, all yours, both equally great studio rooms....one full of the best analog gear, the other a Pro Tools rig on a desk.

And I don't mean for you to look at it from some resale value "I'll take the analog gear, sell it....etc"....I mean using either for recording, mixing, mastering preferences.
Yeah, these days the fact that computers and software feel like a more "known quantity"...I can see some people being intimidated by the roomful of analg hardware...all those buttons......but look beyond the learning curves.

Human beings being what we are, I can see many arguments against hybrid systems. And this time, the opposition would come from both the analog only and digital forever camps. I can see them saying things like "Man up and take a side !" or something daft like that.
United at last !

Actually, choice isn't always necessarily a matter of preference. It's also worth considering that it can take quite a while for any individual to work out what their preferences actually are.

I'm not sure how many people would argue the "man up" thing...and TBH, unless there were other considerations, like "I don't have the space for all that gear"...or..."I can't afford both to go hybrid"...I'm not really seeing what the many arguments against hybrid would be...?...it serves the best of both worlds.

AFA choice and preference...well, if there's a gun to your head or some other limitation, you're forced to choose...but again, all obstacles removed, there are always the "dream" preferences we all carry around in our heads, sometimes all our lives...

I know it can sometimes take a lot of time to work out true preferences...which was kinda my point earlier, that many people never have that option, to experience a lot of different gear, hands-on, over time, and then make choices.
Rather their preferences are limited from the start...so it's kinda of a contradiction to talk about A or B as your actual "preference" in any more absolute way.
"Limited choice" would be more the reality than a true "preference".

 

[RFR]

I know it can sometimes take a lot of time to work out true preferences...which was kinda my point earlier, that many people never have that option, to experience a lot of different gear, hands-on, over time, and then make choices.
Rather their preferences are limited from the start...so it's kinda of a contradiction to talk about A or B as your actual "preference" in any more absolute way.
"Limited choice" would be more the reality than a true "preference".

Gear preferences can be modified by ignorance as well.

Way back when i was recording my band demos on my Tascam 4 track we hd the chance to go into a real studio. Top notch place owned by Motown. Buddy worked there as second engineer. (Cable coiler and coffee boy)
Place had an SSL G series console.

We were getting better sounding demos on the four track ( in our collective opinions)

For years I had a negative bias against SSL desks.
When in actuality, our buddy the second engineer, was just a lousy producer and engineer.

I guess a moral there is that you can have the best gear, but if you’re not a master over your gear, you’ll get crap results.

But in my own naivety, I blamed SSL for years.
Nowadays I’d love to have one.

 

[miroslav]

Funny....I too had somewhat of a dislike of SSL consoles...and TBH, I can't even recall where/why/how I developed that feeling....never used one.

I think some of it had to do with that whole Neve vs. SSL thing. There was a period where much of the stuff was being done on one or the other...and I was enamored with Neve consoles....even though I only ever worked with/heard only a Neve 8058 in person, and "worked with" being a very loose term. It was more like I was standing next to the engineer who worked with it... ...when I spent a few months kinda doing an intern thing.
Mostly I was looking to just get some real-word studio experience, but it's not like I started off making coffee only, with no audio knowledge. I already had my second home studio iteration at that time...and that Neve studio happened to be just 15 minutes away, and the engineer let me hang out and help out.

I had just missed them doing a session with Natalie Merchant...which would have been cool to experience. Other than that, the only other "name" I came close to while there was Mick Ronson's old producer, but this was a couple of years after Mick had died. The producer was there with his GF/wife(?)...very "R&R", all in black, sunglasses (indoors)...the whole thing.

Anyway...anecdote aside...it was funny how I had developed that "negative" view of SSL...for no real reason. Of course, that went away, and yeah, I would love an SSL just as much as a Neve. I was even looking at the new SSL Origin consoles recently...but even these new, smaller analog desks are too pricey for me...I mean, just for a home studio rig...$50k for a 32 channel. If I was going to run the studio as a commercial operation, maybe.
Of course, now...with this virus...forget it. Smaller commercial studios struggle even when things are normal...with the "new normal"...they're all just gathering dust for the most part...and trying to come up with some "socially safe" way to ramp their biz back up, but I think it will be several more months of this madness...maybe by next summer people will stop wearing masks and all that...maybe not. I saw an article where one doctor was saying how people are now getting use to wearing the masks...so maybe it should be a permanent "new normal".
I couldn't imagine everyone living with masks on indefinitely as some "feel safe" prophylactic solution.

OK...sorry...I forgot, this isn't the Corona thread in Prime.

 

[RFR]

The corona issue and it’s insane consequences is THE most important issue of our lives so you’re forgiven.

Back on topic.......

Neve vs SSL

It seems the consensus was to track on a Neve (‘it had that color’ ) and mix on an SSL (‘ it had that pristine clarity’)

And my young dumbass was all about preaching that gospel, all the while, not knowing shit

So many youngsters (as well as elders) just repeat what someone (whom they perceive as knowledgeable) has said without ever learning about something and coming up with conclusions based in observation.

 

[grimtraveller]

OK...but you're just addressing the recorder aspect.

Well, most discussions of this nature tend in that direction.

I was talking about free a roomful of great analog hardware too.
I mean...two sets of buildings...keys to each, all yours, both equally great studio rooms....one full of the best analog gear, the other a Pro Tools rig on a desk.

In terms of actual hardware, I've always been and still remain an analog man. Give me drums, percussion, organs, pianos, mellotrons, clavinets, horns, amps, guitars, effects pedals etc.
I'd only use Pro Tools or the console & reels if it was the only thing available.
As to the room etc, I glory in being a hobbyist so it would have to be at home !

I'm not sure how many people would argue the "man up" thing...and TBH, unless there were other considerations, like "I don't have the space for all that gear"...or..."I can't afford both to go hybrid"...I'm not really seeing what the many arguments against hybrid would be...?...it serves the best of both worlds.

It's not so much that there's any good arguments against the hybrid set up, just that preference is king to humanity and so long as something isn't one's chosen way, there'll always be people to find something wrong with it.
People are strange.

 

[grimtraveller]

maybe by next summer people will stop wearing masks and all that...maybe not. I saw an article where one doctor was saying how people are now getting use to wearing the masks

Someone should come up with the innovation of the PPE mask that doubles as a mic pop shield !

 

[miroslav]

It's not so much that there's any good arguments against the hybrid set up, just that preference is king to humanity and so long as something isn't one's chosen way, there'll always be people to find something wrong with it.
People are strange.

Not strange, it's just the natural thing to do.
If everyone was just left to their own limited choice/preference, without ever being challenged and introduced to other options...
...they would never know what they are missing.

That's the thing with a lot of the home rec crowd...they don't know what they don't know.
Present thread company excluded, of course!

 

[ecc83]

Someone should come up with the innovation of the PPE mask that doubles as a mic pop shield !

They have already put a fan and HEAPA filters in one!

 

[miroslav]

They have already put a fan and HEAPA filters in one!

And some are pushing a mask "frame" device that sits over your mouth before the mask, in order to keep the mask from being sucked in every time you breathe, since many people have a hard time with them...and the "experts" are already claiming that might make the mask less effective.
Meanwhile...people still wear bandanas, even after it was clearly stated that they offer little to no protection.

It's all becoming a scamdemic...the actual virus will simply linger along and become less and less of a problem, but according to many "experts"...never truly fade away....just like other things, measles, plaque, etc..etc.
So this is where we are...live with it...get on with it.

Anyway...I again will say...let's not turn this into a "Corona" thread. There is one in Prime for anyone that really wants to go deep with the virus conversations.

I only hope that studio life and live music making will return to some real normal...and not any "new normal", where musicians have to wear masks when performing, and people running around sanitizing every knob and every fader any time they are touched.

 

[RFR]

On the hybrid thing......

Tape I know, tape I like, tape I’m used to.
I like the sound of tape when you hit it hard.
Consoles I like. I like the tactile aspect. I like buttons, faders, just turning some knobs. I like the sonic character of a mixer. I like ‘listening’ to the song rather than seeing it on a screen.


Digital is something new to me. Only been in that world for 5 years or so.
However, I like that too. I like the options, the speed, the editing, the ability to use plugins that in the analog world would be unaffordable.


There are lots of things about both mediums that are great, and there’s things about each that suck.


Seems most of the pro analog arguments are based on the sound being better. And that it has desirable characteristics that digital is missing.
I’d venture to say theres some truth to that. Otherwise there wouldn’t be so many plug-ins sold that are trying to replicate tape.

In closing, hybrid is the best of both worlds. (Imho)