I'm just getting into and learning about tape and I'm very interested in getting something. I'd like to get an 8 or 16 track and if it has all 8 or 16 VU meters, that's even better (I just like the look of it a lot). Something not way to expensive but not a starter model. Thanks!
8 or 16 Track Tape Machine
- Thread starter inbloom27
- Start date
Talldog
Pain in the ass
you sure you want to do this? Getting a crappy mixer and cheap tape machine isn't really going to make your digital recordings much different. Analog equipment takes upkeep and can be really wonky. If you want to get some Tape in the path why not mix to a 2 track reel to reel? Not saying you shouldn't try.
I agree with Talldog,
If you are going to do this you will need some help and luck finding a good machine. They almost always have some problems that need fixing, No matter how cool they sound when you are checking them out. Whatever you do, take your time and test the machine before you buy it and get some folks here to give you some tips on what to look for.
If you are going to do this you will need some help and luck finding a good machine. They almost always have some problems that need fixing, No matter how cool they sound when you are checking them out. Whatever you do, take your time and test the machine before you buy it and get some folks here to give you some tips on what to look for.
RandyRhoads1981
New member
I'd say a Tascam 8-Track Recorder with a Tascam 12 Channel Mixer would be a great start.
I've always been impressed with the reliability and sound quality of Tascams.
If you are dumping into Pro-Tools or something, you
don't need to worry too much about Track count.
I'd say for a Tape Machine, go with:
Tascam 38, 48, 58, or an ATR-60-8(if you can find one).
For a Mixer:
Tascam M-35, M-308, M-312, M-50, or an M-512.
I've listed these in the order of oldest(Lower quality) to newest(Higher quality)
If you really want 16 VU Meters, you're heading toward a big format tape machine.
The kind that are the size and weight of a washing machine.
The only 16 Track in compact form were the Tascam MSR-16's and they had LCD Metering.
Plus, Quantegy 456 Tape in 1/2" width is quite plentiful, inexpensive, and is unused quite a bit.
I'm having quite a hard time finding good 1" Tape for my 16-Track.
I'm looking at $150 per reel of brand new tape.
Good luck,
Tom
leddy
Well-known member
Hardcore DIY-ers might disagree, but I would start by finding at least one good tech in your area that can service tape decks before you buy anything. You WILL need service at some point. If you don't know what you are doing, you'll be wasting time and money. Either commit to learning or commit to finding help.
That said, I'd find a Tascam 22 and mix to it to get your feet wet. Find one, and folks here can likely talk you through getting started.
That said, I'd find a Tascam 22 and mix to it to get your feet wet. Find one, and folks here can likely talk you through getting started.
You're forgetting about the Fostex B, E & G series 1/2" 16tracks. Same format but different noise reduction schemes than the Tascams.
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
oldest to newest is actually M-35, M-50, M-512, M-300 series and I wouldn't make a direct corelation to age/quality...each of those mixers or mixer series (M-50 and M-512 being very similar) are going to have particular elements that are unique to each as well as some subtle differences in sound...note that the M-50 and M-512 are 8 group mixers and all the rest are 4 group...
connect0123
New member
what is meant by you.
Which type of mixture are you guys talking about
Which type of mixture are you guys talking about
RandyRhoads1981
New member
The 300 Series came out AFTER the 500 Series?
No way.
Look at the features, build quality, Tascam logo, and the Knobs they use.
The 500 Series is very similar to the M-600 Console which was mid-late 80's.
I thought the 300 series mixers went with the 32, 34, and 38 Recorders(Early 80's)
And the 500 series went with the 52, 58, and ATR-60 Series Recorders(Mid-Late 80's)?
The 500 series is MUCH more professional because Tascam started to
become more directed to upper scale building quality and features.
The 300 Series is still a bit ancient and very reminiscent of the 1970's TEAC gear.
BTW, I'm not angry towards you about this or anything, I'm puzzled.
Blue Jinn
Rider of the ARPocalypse
The Teac 5 e.g. has transformers in its Mic pres, the 520 is all active circuitry. I kick myself for not saving the cards from my broken model 5, it would be getting in line for moddings...
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
According to Teac/Tascam I'm correct.
You're assuming that Teac/Tascam only ever had one line of mixers that evolved over time but they had multiple lines and the model numbers aren't indicative of the chronology and evolution but denote the different lines. Of course the M-500 series has a more advanced feature set but that's not because they came out later per se, but because it was a higher-end line, just like the feature-set of the M-600 is beyond the M-500 series, and the same goes for the M-700 to the M-600. The fact that the M-600 has a more advanced feature set than the M-500 has less to do with the fact that the M-600 was introduced in 1987 and the M-500 series in 1983 and more to do with one being designed for a higher-end bracket in terms of feature demand. Apples and oranges. The M-600 and M-500 series were marketed and sold simultaneously, not as predeccessor and successor.
Same goes for the M-300 series and M-500 series. BOTH were introduced in 1984 but the M-500 series hit the market first followed by the M-300 series later in the year. I believe the M-512 may have begun creeping into the market in late 1983 as I believe the M-50 was introduced in 1983 which is nearly identical to the M-512, but 1984 is the official year of the M-500 series. The M-500 series was not "the next step" of the M-300 series; the M-500 series was specifically designed for more advanced recording applications with the 8-buss architecture and prominent monitor section, and the M-300 series was designed as a more true dual-purpose FOH/recording mixer...still a VERY full feature set but slimmed to 4-groups with some key differences in frame construction that helped the price-point. Love 'em both.
The M-35 and M-30 were both introduced also in 1983. The M-30 was a replacement for the Model 3 and the M-35 was an advanced version of the M-30 with modular construction and was expandable with the M-35EX expander. Otherwise they were similar in their feature set.
You're also assuming there is some correlation between tape machine model numbers and mixer lines. While there may be some loose conventions that exist there they are far from hard and fast and that can be supported by reviewing pertinent manuals and seeing that Teac/Tascam presented some variability in what gear they paired with respective gear in their manuals...pairings were more scenario and feature-based rather than "this tape machine was designed to be used with this mixer", since they were diversified with some of their lines sharing territory.
The 30-series and 50-series tape machines were both introduced in 1983 as a diversified evolutionary replacement for the Teac 80-8. The 58 came early in the year and the 52 followed later in the year. IIRC the 38 and 32 came at the same time with the 58 and the 34 followed later in the year. Might be wrong about that.
The ATR60 series came in 1985, the MS-16 and ATR80 series in 1987.
Couple other comments...
The M-500 series uses potentiometer knobs and color caps from the old style cosmetics that go all the way back to the 144 four-tracker...the M-300 series uses a new style that AFAIK was introduced with the M-300 series and also used on the 388, M-200 and M-100 series mixers.
The M-500 is an interesting unit because I believe (based on my in depth work with my prototype M-500 mixer) that the M-500 grew out of a down-scaling of an upper end concept that started as an evolution of the M-16. I'm hypothesizing here but we see where, at the end of the 70's and the beginning of the 80's Teac was growing in two directions, one was the advancement of their professional home-recordist lines (bringing new features at a reduced cost to those lines) and the development of lines designed specifically for professional markets. The 80-8 split to the 30-series and 50-series recorders is a prime example that occurred at that time; the 30 series a more refined unit with all the best of the 80-8 for the professional home recordist but with changes and advances in construction to focus on making it even MORE accessible to the consumer market than the widely popular 80-8, and the 58 with advanced servo control and sync capaility as well as balanced +4dBu I/O for the video production industry. Teac/Tascam saw the 80-8 struggling because it was out of reach price-wise for a share of the market but didn't meet the needs of the video industry. My prototype M-500 mixer is of modular construction like the M-16 and M-35 but is pure M-500 cosmetics. I think they (Teac/Tascam) recognized that the market they were going for with they prototype concept was not fruitful, and the concept was split into the M-300 and M-500 lines...certain features on the prototype are found on the M-300 mixers but not the M-500 and vice-versa. Still other feature profiles made it to neither and came out in other products like the eq section which is almost identical to the eq channels on the PE-40. But make no mixtake that the both the M-300 series and M-500 series are solid performers in eaither FOH or recording applications...they call upon different feature conventions to get the work done.
So my point is that, especially during the 80's there was just a lot goin' on at Teac with product development...a lot, and product lines bled into each other, split, melded, etc. Their product development in the 80's really looks like a couple ladders strapped together rather than one or two vectors.
Here's another great example of non-logical product numbering:
the 90-16, the first ever 1" 16-track tape machine succeeded by the............[drum roll]..............85-16.
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RandyRhoads1981
New member
WOW Cory!
You completely blew me out of the water!
Makes sense. I've seen that M-500, it's a very strange mixer.
Definitely looks like a prototype.
Great info.
I apologize for challenging you
You completely blew me out of the water!
Makes sense. I've seen that M-500, it's a very strange mixer.
Definitely looks like a prototype.
Great info.
I apologize for challenging you
Sorry for being my usual brusque self, but...
Someone who is looking for a not too expensive 16-track tape machine because the 16 VU meters look cool?
Do you really think anything other than a pointer toward the "Analog Only" forum and advice to do a lot of research is going to be anything other than a waste of time...
Someone who is looking for a not too expensive 16-track tape machine because the 16 VU meters look cool?
Do you really think anything other than a pointer toward the "Analog Only" forum and advice to do a lot of research is going to be anything other than a waste of time...
B
Beck
Guest
The 38, 48 and 58 are all good choices. As is the Otari MX5050-8. Don't be afraid to take the plunge. That's what this forum is all about. There's a learning curve or course as with anything, but the sonic rewards are well worth the effort. If you want something with VU meters that's cool, but if that weren't an issue I highly recommend the TSR-8 for it's sound and smooth logic controlled tape handling. I'm still amazed Tascam managed to build that thing to such high standards at the price point they did. IMO it's their best 8-track on 1/2". It's the latest and greatest. In fact I think it's the best of any manufacturer's 8-track on 1/2". The logic controlled tape handling is as gentle as closed-loop designs costing tens of thousands of dollars on large format professional machines.
Next to that the 48 would be my choice. Those of us that can take about any ragged out machine and get it running like new have an advantage. We have no fear. But if you're not so inclined, shop wisely from someone that knows what they're doing. If you pay a bit more for a machine that's been properly maintained you'll save big bucks in the long run. Average eBay prices aren't a good reference because you'll find everything from nearly new to belongs in the garbage.
If you really need 16 tracks go for the Tascam MSR-16 or the Fostex E-16 or G-16. There's also the B-16, which was the first, but I don't see many of those in good condition and finding parts for Fostex machines can be impossible in many cases. Last time I looked the heads for the MSR-16 were discontinued, but I've seen them come and go over the years. One would think once they're gone that's it, but they must find some old stock once in a while. That's one reason why there are so many Tascam fans out there. Tascam still has parts and actively sources new parts when they run out of something, including heads for many vintage machines. The record and playback heads for the 38, 48, 58 and TSR-8 are the same part number. What that means is most people here will probably be dead and buried before those heads become scarce, so it's a good investment.
Next to that the 48 would be my choice. Those of us that can take about any ragged out machine and get it running like new have an advantage. We have no fear. But if you're not so inclined, shop wisely from someone that knows what they're doing. If you pay a bit more for a machine that's been properly maintained you'll save big bucks in the long run. Average eBay prices aren't a good reference because you'll find everything from nearly new to belongs in the garbage.
If you really need 16 tracks go for the Tascam MSR-16 or the Fostex E-16 or G-16. There's also the B-16, which was the first, but I don't see many of those in good condition and finding parts for Fostex machines can be impossible in many cases. Last time I looked the heads for the MSR-16 were discontinued, but I've seen them come and go over the years. One would think once they're gone that's it, but they must find some old stock once in a while. That's one reason why there are so many Tascam fans out there. Tascam still has parts and actively sources new parts when they run out of something, including heads for many vintage machines. The record and playback heads for the 38, 48, 58 and TSR-8 are the same part number. What that means is most people here will probably be dead and buried before those heads become scarce, so it's a good investment.
Blue Jinn
Rider of the ARPocalypse
Heads for the MSR-16 are "discontinued" but last time I checked (which was probably 18 mos ago) they were still available from Teac, and I can't imagine they sell **that** many at nearly a grand a pop. I had an almost new head relapped by JRF for $125, (and last time I check (>2-3 yrs ago) JRF had new ones as well) to "new condition" with 85% life left. That was JRF's estimate, and that is my spare. AFAIK the erase head can be lapped a lot more, as it doesn't have a gap, please correct me if I'm wrong on that.
B
Beck
Guest
Yeah they stopped making some parts long ago. What I mean by discontinued is no longer in stock and that's what I was told last time I checked late last year. But I was also told a couple uears ago that they had no more heads for the 388, but now they have some in stock again. I should call JRF and see what they have around for various machines I'd be interested in. I wish Saki still made heads. They had some good ones. Theirs for the 80-8 was better than the original TEAC. Those are still out there as well NOS, but harder to find. NOS Nortronics heads are still out there too. The trick is tracking them down.