4-track tape recordings to computer?

[winterbreak]

Hi,

New to analog recording -- been reading a couple things here and there, so far so good! I am really interested in working with some of the little tunes I've made, but I'm still a newbie and I was hoping I could get some help.

I have a couple songs recorded on my Tascam Porta02 MKII tape machine and I'd like to transfer them to my laptop for some very basic editing. I want to keep these recordings as raw and lo-fi as they sound on the machine. I know most would recommend ways to avoid or eliminate hiss, clipping, etc., but I'd like to retain these quirks for aesthetic value.

I don't have an audio interface with which to transfer these songs, so I'm planning on buying one. Sadly, I'm on a very low budget, but after searching around I found the Behringer UCA202 and UCA222 -- dirt cheap for what seems like little devices with nice reviews.

My question: Are these interfaces good enough for what I'm looking for? I'd like to plug the Tascam through the interface, into my laptop. The songs are simple acoustic folk, basic drums and a little synth sprinkled on them. I'd like to transfer these to my laptop so I can mess around with effects, but overall keeping how they naturally sound on the tape machine.

To get a general picture of the sound I'm looking for, try the song "Jewel" by Adam Melchor -- tape hiss, quiet guitars. Will the Behringer UCA202 work?

Like I said, I'm only starting out so not a problem if the songs sound too lo-fi and demo quality! Just asking if the Behringer will at least be decent enough to retain their original sound from the machine.

I'm sorry if these questions are too dumb, still a lot to learn.

Thanks in advance,
Benjamin

 

[gecko zzed]

The UC202 will work just fine. It won't degrade the quality of the recording.

I believe the Porta02MKII ony has a single stereo output, so you simply connect that to the input of the Behringer.

However, if you want to keep the four tracks separate for playing with later, you are stuck unless you do two runs and hope that you can line them up successfully later.

 

[sweetbeats]

Greetings, Benjamin.

So, the catch with what you are proposing generally is totally doable. The catch with how you are proposing to accomplish it is this:

The Porta 02 series features no way to get your 4 tape tracks out simultaneously. Likewise the UCA202, which will otherwise work fine for your intended purpose, also can input no more than two channels at a time. So either way you can only transfer 2 tracks of a 4 track project with that gear at a time. This doesn’t mean it won’t work in the end, it’s just that you have to transfer two tracks at a time and then line them up in your software, and because tape transport speed can drift, if you have tracks with any bleeding from other tracks, either from crosstalk on the tape or because there was mic or signal bleed during recording, you might experience “phase distortion” or phasing issues when you try to line them up in the software.

Does that make sense?

[EDIT]

Gecko beat me to it!

 

[winterbreak]

The UC202 will work just fine. It won't degrade the quality of the recording.

I believe the Porta02MKII ony has a single stereo output, so you simply connect that to the input of the Behringer.

However, if you want to keep the four tracks separate for playing with later, you are stuck unless you do two runs and hope that you can line them up successfully later.

Alright! Guess I'm on the right track. So, the 202 will do just fine -- is there any difference between that one and the UCA222? I keep seeing both of them listed as having the same price and specifications, but I'm not sure if they're the exact same on the inside, or if they will deliver the same quality when transferring. If they are the same, I might be getting the UCA222 since it's more available.

Oops, I overlooked that limitation on the Tascam. So, the two channel limitation means I cannot transfer all four tracks playing simultaneously on the Tascam? Does that mean that only two tracks can come out of the line out on the Tascam? Or can I "dump" all four tracks playing into one transfer? Again -- super novice questions but I'm still figuring this out!

Thank you for your help.

 

[winterbreak]

Greetings, Benjamin.

So, the catch with what you are proposing generally is totally doable. The catch with how you are proposing to accomplish it is this:

The Porta 02 series features no way to get your 4 tape tracks out simultaneously. Likewise the UCA202, which will otherwise work fine for your intended purpose, also can input no more than two channels at a time. So either way you can only transfer 2 tracks of a 4 track project with that gear at a time. This doesn’t mean it won’t work in the end, it’s just that you have to transfer two tracks at a time and then line them up in your software, and because tape transport speed can drift, if you have tracks with any bleeding from other tracks, either from crosstalk on the tape or because there was mic or signal bleed during recording, you might experience “phase distortion” or phasing issues when you try to line them up in the software.

Does that make sense?

[EDIT]

Gecko beat me to it!

Okay, I should've read this comment too before replying to Gecko! So, there's no way to capture all four tracks coming out of the line out on the Tascam. How do I switch between each track pair when transferring? Say I'm transferring tracks 1 & 2 simultaneously -- how do I then transfer tracks 3 & 4? Do I simply bring tracks 1 & 2 volume down to zero, bring tracks 3 & 4 volume up, hit play and record?

I'm still a little confused too with gain and volume when recording to my laptop. Are there any adjustments I should make with the Behringer before recording? I'm guessing mic gain on Windows?

I'll look into "phase distortion" too to see what it's about -- I get the general picture, but I'll probably understand it way better once I start transferring the tape tracks down to the laptop.

Thank you both for your help, it's great stuff.

Greetings,
Benjamin

 

[sweetbeats]

This is just a guess, but I suspect the guts of the UCA202 are very similar if not practically identical to the UCA222. They have the same feature set. It makes sense to go with the UCA222.

Oops, I overlooked that limitation on the Tascam.

And understand it is a limitation of BOTH the Porta 02 mkII, AND the UCA202/222...the Porta 02 mkII can only output two channels simultaneously (whether that's two tape tracks, or a stereo mix of all four tape tracks or something in between, bottom line its only two channels at a time), and the UCA202/222 can only input two channels at a time (again, whether that's two discrete tape tracks, or a stereo mix, or something in between, regardless, the maximum number of separate channels it can accomodate at one time is two).

So, the two channel limitation means I cannot transfer all four tracks playing simultaneously on the Tascam?

Correct.

Does that mean that only two tracks can come out of the line out on the Tascam?

No, not necessarily. it means that only a maximum of two audio channels can be output at one time. You see on the back there are the L and R LINE OUT jacks. And then you look at the left-hand side of the constrol surface of the Porta 02 mkII and you see that little tape cue mixer right? The four sets of level and pan knobs? Those control the level of each tape track on playback as well as assigning it to the L or R output, or something in between. So you can choose to only turn up the level control on two tape tracks, and pan one hard L and the other hard R, and now you will have only one tape tape track on the L output, and the other tape track on the R output...and your third and fourth tape tracks are just silent because you didn't turn the level controls up on those. Now you can transfer those two tape tracks to the laptop discretely and they will stay as separate tracks on the laptop. Alternatively you could turn up the level controls on all four tape tracks (mix the levels to taste) and also set the pan controls for each of the four tape tracks to taste (hard L, H R or anything in between for any of them) and in doing so create a stereo mix of your 4-track project, and that mix will be output via the LINE OUT jacks, and you can transfer that to the laptop, but you will be recording two tracks to the laptop; the stereo mix. There is no way to separate that back out to four tracks on the laptop. The laptop is essentially your master recorder in this case, and there's nothing stopping you from applying effects, EQ or other edits to that master recording on the laptop, but your effectgs and edits will apply to the whole stereo mix...you won't be able to apply effects or edits to what was the individual tape tracks because they are now all mixed together. The other option was to transfer two tape tracks at a time, and then in your software grab the second set of tracks you transferred and move them in your software timeline to get them to line up. But I mentioned some potential caveats to this in my previous post...it kind of depends on how you captured your tracks and of what they are comprised. If you have four tape tracks that were captured one at a time or at least no more than two at a time, and you recorded at reasonable levels, then you don't run the risk of crosstalk between tracks nor will you have mic bleed across tracks that get transferred to te laptop at different times. If this is the case with the way you record, the easiest and most inexpensive way for you to do what you want is to get that UCA222 and transfer tracks to the laptop in pairs, nudge the pairs of tracks in your software so they line up (there are a couple tricks to doing this that can make it easier), and have a good time mastering your project on the laptop. Plenty of people do exactly that.

Or can I "dump" all four tracks playing into one transfer?

Hopefully I answered that? That would be that stereo mix of your four tape tracks, but you can't separate that back out to four discrete tracks in the software.

 

[sweetbeats]

Okay, I should've read this comment too before replying to Gecko! So, there's no way to capture all four tracks coming out of the line out on the Tascam. How do I switch between each track pair when transferring? Say I'm transferring tracks 1 & 2 simultaneously -- how do I then transfer tracks 3 & 4? Do I simply bring tracks 1 & 2 volume down to zero, bring tracks 3 & 4 volume up, hit play and record?

I'm still a little confused too with gain and volume when recording to my laptop. Are there any adjustments I should make with the Behringer before recording? I'm guessing mic gain on Windows?

I'll look into "phase distortion" too to see what it's about -- I get the general picture, but I'll probably understand it way better once I start transferring the tape tracks down to the laptop.

Yes that's right...turn up the level controls of tracks 1 & 2, pan track 1 hard L, and track 2 hard R...that will get each track on its own output on the back of the Porta 02. Roll tape and engage record on the laptop.Then turn the level controls fully counter-clockwise (i.e. OFF for all intents and purposes) and bring up the levels of tracks 3 & 4...pan one hard L and the other hard R, roll tape and engage record on the laptop.

The UCA202/222 doesn't have any input level controls. So your record levels in your software are dependent on the output level controls on the Tascam. Does that make sense? I'm not familiar with the current driver software for the Behringer, so it is possible it *may* have input sensitivity settings in its control panel, but usually something like that is in step ranges rather than a knob you twist to control the input level. But the nominal output range of the Tascam LINE OUT jacks is the same nominal range as the Behringer input jacks...so they should match and you likely will have no trouble getting a good signal level to the laptop. You want to set the tape track level controls so that the levels on your laptop are strong but not clipping. In other words don't worry about trying to set the levels of the pairs of tracks you are transferring so they sound balanced with each other. Set levels so you get a strong but not too hot level to the software in the laptop. You will be able to balance the levels of things later using the virtual mixer in your recording software on the laptop. Because you will be using the Behringer as your audio interface, you won't be doing anything with the line or mic input on the laptop...the "Windows mic" you're not going to be using that. Instead you will be using the Behringer which is a much better quality set of inputs than the native soundcard line input on the laptop.

Don't get too lost in the phase distortion. Just follow the rule of thumb that if you are transferring tracks in pairs, transfer any pairs of tracks that were recorded that way as a pair you are transferring. Have a pair of tracks that were recorded at the same time, one a vocal mic and the other a guitar DI? You were signing and playing guitar at the same time? The DI won't have any bleed from you singing...but the mic will likely have picked up the guitar..."mic bleed"...so transfer that guitar and vocal track at the same time. If you *don't* it is possible there might be weirdness since the mic track has you singing, but also has a little guitar, and if you transfer the guitar track to the laptop at a different time now you've got some guitar in the mic track from one transfer and guitar from the DI in another transfer, and if the speed of the Porta 02 mkII drifted at all between those two passes of the tape with the two separate transfers (which is possible and not all the abnormal with a cassette transport...the degree of which depends on the make, model, age, conditon, etc.), then there might be phasing weirdness. If you have a 4-track project where you recorded all 4 tracks at once, like a live band all in the room together, then there is potential for all sorts of bleed across all four tracks and there may not be any way around having some weirdness if you can only transfer two tracks at a time to the computer...but I'm thinking that's not the case here...the Porta 02 mkII can only record two tracks simultaneously, correct?