388 User Leveling up to M3500

The story with GRS is way to complicated to get into. They have been in and out of communication. The first order was in a forklift incident (at least that's what their shipping co said) the second was sent to the Philippines... again you can't make this stuff up. I could tell you stories to make your heads spin. Apparently they don't have internet or phone right now ( if you believe they don't exist just to rip me off) BUT in any case, the point is I need back up options for a mixer to work with the MSR-16S -- that is the only reason I'm posting here. There is a thread over at Gearslutz titled "Is GRS a Scam" if ya'll are interested. I needed the input of "pros" that might have ordered from them. But I don't want their input on gear. They are a bunch of A holes on that board
 
rorohello said:
The story with GRS is way to complicated to get into. They have been in and out of communication. The first order was in a forklift incident (at least that's what their shipping co said) the second was sent to the Philippines... again you can't make this stuff up. I could tell you stories to make your heads spin. Apparently they don't have internet or phone right now ( if you believe they don't exist just to rip me off) BUT in any case, the point is I need back up options for a mixer to work with the MSR-16S -- that is the only reason I'm posting here. There is a thread over at Gearslutz titled "Is GRS a Scam" if ya'll are interested. I needed the input of "pros" that might have ordered from them. But I don't want their input on gear. They are a bunch of A holes on that board
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Well...if you were on the east coast I would be happy to make you a deal you couldn't refuse on my 3500 w/PSU and lots of spare parts...since I'm not using it anymore. :)

Had you run into the PSU dilemma last year around the early Fall, I still had an extra PSU for the 3500...but that's about the time it went to a good home with one of our fellow members here.
 
rorohello said:
BUT in any case, the point is I need back up options for a mixer to work with the MSR-16S --
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Sorry to hear of your dilemma.

I know im a fan boy but I've been super happy with an m520 with my msr16. Been using this combo for years
Even did two commercial cd releases.

But at this point, it's either find a PS, or find a mixer with a ps.
Usually there's a reason the power supply gets lost. The board has issues as well.
Best to find a working board that has just come out of service rather than one stored away for years.
 
Thanks both of you, Miroslav you are an example of why this forum is such a greater resource than Gearslutz.

Its true that the M3500 I got in package deal with the tape machine may not even work, but I trust the seller. I met him in person and we had tea before we sis the deal.

Sadly, I left the PSU on purpose because I was under the impression it was easy (as far as number of suppliers) to have a newer one (with better specs) made.

I'm sure the seller would ship it to me if I cover cost. I'm thinking I might not want the big board after all however. The cost of cable to patch everything and the fact that I'm a solo singer/songwriter who builds songs up one track at a time make it impractical.

Because GRS has their "Seller is Away" thingy on on eBay makes me believe I will hear from them again eventually. And that I will get a PSU to test it. At which point I'd try selling the thing at o ly a bit of a loss. I'm looking into newer options -- mainly just for monitoring the 16 tracks from the deck and I'm open to hearing anyone's configs on here.
 
rorohello said:
Thanks both of you, Miroslav you are an example of why this forum is such a greater resource than Gearslutz.

Its true that the M3500 I got in package deal with the tape machine may not even work, but I trust the seller. I met him in person and we had tea before we sis the deal.

Sadly, I left the PSU on purpose because I was under the impression it was easy (as far as number of suppliers) to have a newer one (with better specs) made.

I'm sure the seller would ship it to me if I cover cost. I'm thinking I might not want the big board after all however. The cost of cable to patch everything and the fact that I'm a solo singer/songwriter who builds songs up one track at a time make it impractical.

Because GRS has their "Seller is Away" thingy on on eBay makes me believe I will hear from them again eventually. And that I will get a PSU to test it. At which point I'd try selling the thing at o ly a bit of a loss. I'm looking into newer options -- mainly just for monitoring the 16 tracks from the deck and I'm open to hearing anyone's configs on here.
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I'll make it simple...
If you want to monitor 16 tracks from the deck...you want/need a mixer.
Since you now say the original PSU was available to you (I honestly don't get why you didn't take it along with the mixer even if you still planned to have a better one built :facepalm:)...you should contact the seller and get the original PSU. :)

Even if you plan to now sell the 3500, I can't believe you would pay $1k for a new PSU, and then sell the 3500 along with that PSU at a serious loss.
You will not get even $500 for the 3500 (that's the sad state of older project level analog mixers).
If you're going to try and sell the 3500, it will be less costly to just get the original PSU, and sell it like that...but I'm not sure why you just wouldn't then use the 3500 once you have the original PSU...?
I'm a solo singer/songwriter for the most part...and I replaced my 3500 with another, bigger console, because with my 2" 24-track (I used to have a 16-track before that) I find it so much easier to work with the console for setting up cue mixes during tracking, and also for mixdowns.

I'm not sure what other consoles you're thinking about...but no matter what you get, you will still need the cables to patch everything together with the console and the 16-track deck.

TBH...if you want to have a real simple, minimal setup, with hardly any cabling and patching to deal with, where you can do just one track at a time...
...then get rid of the console and the tape deck and external gear, and just got with a DAW rig.
I run both...it's a pretty involved hybrid analog/digital setup, and I love my tape deck and analog gear...but for people that want things simple, compact, inexpensive, and almost maintenance-free, I will always recommend a DAW rig to them. It's just a lot less hassle for a lot of people these days.
 
Funny. On a seperate note on this thread, just my participation has led to me getting ads for a PSU for a M3500 for 999. Probably from the same seller as yours.
Damn google tracking.
Back on topic, get the original psu and use the mixer. The money you'll save over the psu for a grand will cover your cable expenses nicely.
:D
 
The MSR-16S and M3500 didn't cost that much when I got them together. I had read somewhere that getting a new PSU significantly lowers the noise floor of the M3500.

It was my mistake to think that many were available beyond GRS. But I do believe GRS will deliver in time.

I have so many recording rigs (from early 4 tracks to Korg Sound on Sound, to RME Babyface & Win, to Focusrite Clarrett and Garageband) but I do strongly prefer a tape machine and a console, so that's what I'm working towards. There is a mixer for 300 on CL right now that I think could be a good back up. A Soundcraft VX7. I'll buy it because at the end if the day, I love buying and maintaining recording equipment. I love sound and multi tracking
 
Not familiar. But soundcraft did some nice stuff.
Its amazing how cheap you can get old analog desks.
I know my m520 was about a 10k desk back in the day.
But i really like my 520/msr16 combination.
Sounds good, it's simple, tape cost isn't too much, and is so much more satisfying to use than my digital gear.
:D
 
Couldn't agree more my man.

My fav combo is actually a TL Audio Fat Track (summing and two channels) and my Otari MX5050
 
But as I said earlier in this thread, the pipedream with the M3500/MSR and my new space (which is a dedicated recording room) is to be able to leave things plug and play. I'm sick and tired of patching and getting down on hands and knees to get behind things.
 
rorohello said:
But as I said earlier in this thread, the pipedream with the M3500/MSR and my new space (which is a dedicated recording room) is to be able to leave things plug and play. I'm sick and tired of patching and getting down on hands and knees to get behind things.
Click to expand...

Ahh...get some patchbays. :)

Man...I couldn't even think how complicated and cumbersome it would be if I didn't use patch bays.
Everything...except my guitar amps...in my studio is wired to a patchbay, especially the analog gear...the tape deck, the console, etc.
I have every single connection on my console wired back to the patch bay. I have not gotten behind or under my gear in years, except when I'm adding new gear or reconfiguring stuff. For that. I put all my racks on wheels, so that I can easily pull out the racks and not have to leave any space behind them. I just don't have a massive studio space, so the patchbays are key. Even with the rather large amount of gear...when you walk into my studio, you would be hard pressed to see any cables. It's all been strategically laid out behind and under the racks and furniture.
 
Yeah I've had a 1/5 DBX that I've rejiggered at least eight times in all the different rooms through the years.

This is also in the thread, but the real bummer is after spending 30K to reno the garage and another 8 on treatment, I found out it costs 26 dollars PER cable to patch the back of a M3500. Not exactly a cheap analog wonder
 
rorohello said:
I found out it costs 26 dollars PER cable to patch the back of a M3500. Not exactly a cheap analog wonder
Click to expand...

Not if you buy bulk cable and roll your own. :)
Pick up some 24 or even 48 channel quality cable...some Mogami or Gepco, etc...and use that to wire the console to the bays, and same with the rack gear.
Just strip it back as long as needed to reach your connections, but the greater part of it will be just a single 24 or 48 channel cable. Nice and neat.

It will be even cheaper to get the bulk multi-channel cable than bulk single channel cable when you make your own. Yeah, the multi-channel cost a bit more on the face of it...but when you multiply the cost of individual cables, it comes out way cheaper. You don't need the heavy jacket individual cables for interconnects that rarely move. You can still buy a roll of single channel, heavy duty cable to use for making mic cables.

eBay is full of bulk cable deals from people who bought a lot, and then only used some. Also...you being in CA, with all those studios, you should find a lot of good deals where you can go pick-up the bulk cable and avoid shipping.

I think probably 80% or more of my studio is wired with cables I made from bulk...and soldered to over 600 patchbay points on one end and added XLR & 1/4" connectors to the gear end.
Yes...cabling is a BIG part of even a decent size studio...never mind anything on the pro side...but it's the infrastructure that is needed, that makes it all connect easily and saves you headaches with patching many times over. It's a shit job wiring up a studio...but once it's done, you can forget about it, other than maybe once in awhile pull the connectors and swab then with some deoxit/preservative solution. Something I'll do when I have to pull a rack out from the wall to add something...I then break out the vacuum cleaner and the connector cleaners and do some dirty work, but it keeps the signals flowing with out issues.
 
OK I'll go the bulk cable route and update the thread when I can test the M3500 with either mixer.

I really appreciate your input.
 
Haha... l mean the MSR-16

Have had three different Xmas with different family across the country.

Apologies for typos in this thread :)

The downside to the wiring is the fulltime job and 1 year old.

Wish Santa had just brought me a fully operational home studio!!
 
Hi All,

Hope everyone had a great Holiday and new year.

I've been calling and messaging GRS Systems almost every other day. They are not responding, so it looks like I'll have to file a small claims suit to recoup the 1400 bucks.

As the ability to use or even offload the M3500 has deteriorated, I continue to try and grock other workflows and monitoring/mixing/summing options to repro off the MSR-16.

The options seem limited at best because of unbalanced RCA in/outs.Is that a correct assumption?

What are the most basic specs I need to meet in order to feed signal and mix back from the machine?

Does the concept of using something like an Aphex 228 to convert the signal to balanced XLR for use with D-sub connections make sense?

Remember I have a 388 already. And I'd never need to track more than 8 tracks at a time for drums - so that is taken care of. All I need then is an unbalanced 16 track mixer with RCA ins...WHY DEAR GOD is this so hard to find??
 
Sorry I'm not being specific enough about my confusion on the matter. Lots of mixers exist for live sound use with 1/4 in 16 channel format.

None have dedicated "Tape In" as on the back of the M3500

So in order to have inputs still open to me when everything is connected, how do I get around this?
 
Is this a crazy concept:

If I print effects to tape (I really only use the PCM 90 on drum buss, and Fulltone Tape echo on vocals and guitar) can I just use the PGM ins on the 388 to monitor 8 stereo tracks with panning?

The TL Fat Track has 4 stereo inputs for summing that have a switch for +4/-10

That would give me repro on all 16 channels, I just wouldn't have panning on 8 tracks
 
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