2340sx doenst erase fully

technoplayer

Recovering Gear-aholic
I have been doing some tape transfer tests on my 2340SX which has not seen use in a while.
I am finding that track 3 does not fully erase the old signal on the tape...I can hear the old signal faintly in the space between songs and even under very quiet passages. Tracks 2 and 4 do not have any belled, while track 1 has a barely discernable bleed. Track 3 is more noticeable.
If I hit record with no input signal on a pre-recorded tape,, 2 +4 are clean erased, 1 is very faint, and 3 has noticable old music bleed.

Is this fixable by a bias adjustment or somethig of that sort?
How would I do this. I do NOT have the manual on this machine
 
Hi Technoplayer,

Sometimes this CAN be solved by biasing but it could be something else. I'm no expert on it really but my 3340 I just got had a similar problem and has been almost completely fixed by calibrating everything up to spec. I also ran into a problem once with my 38 that had this same issue on one track and I fixed it completely by tweaking the bias screw. The one you're not supposed to mess with not the one that is used when you're setting the deck up. But all these decks are different. I have a 2340sx but I haven't really looked to closely at the calibration set up on it Another thing can be the tape. I know I've had old tape on one of my decks once that wouldn't erase. The tape I was using was Maxell when that happened.
 
Thanks Steve.
I am using Maxell UD35 tape exclusively, and I ran the same reel on several other machine without any problem of this sort, so I'm, thinkin it the 2340's problem.

I have not tried to adjust anything yet, and not sure where to start. Any guide as to where I could find the info on how to adjust the bias (either the one I am supposed to or the one im NOT supposed to)

Thnkas for any guidance.
 
Technoplayer, Have you done any calibrating before? It's a little bit of an investment to get everything but it's worth it. You can get the manual from Tascam or ebay and the tape from here http://home.flash.net/~mrltapes/ The tape is #21T104 7.5 ips, IEC2, 200nWb

I have the manual but I don't have a scanner to show you where it is and even then I wouldn't want to misguide you. If you have any specific questions feel free to pm me and I'll look it up for you.
 
No, I have not done calibration. I do have an o'scope and and a nice DVM, so at least that should get me started. Any other test gear needed? I suppose I need to get a calibration tape. I appreciate the help. It may be a bit before I get to this...the day job needs the priority right now
 
No, I have not done calibration. I do have an o'scope and and a nice DVM, so at least that should get me started. Any other test gear needed? I suppose I need to get a calibration tape. I appreciate the help. It may be a bit before I get to this...the day job needs the priority right now

If you have the VM then all else you really need is the MRL tape and the manual. You don't necessarily need the O'scope unless you want to check azimuth. Which might not be a bad idea though.
 
If I hit record with no input signal on a pre-recorded tape,, 2 +4 are clean erased, 1 is very faint, and 3 has noticable old music bleed.
pre-recorded tape? Is this pre-recorded tape recorded on
this 2340SX machine or on some other machine?
 
Several tracks recorded on my RT-707, and several tracks recorded on the 2340.

>>>I do not understand what the MRL tape does for me. The problem seems to be a record bias (erase head??) issue. The MRL is for calibrating playback, correct? Or is the intent to play the MRL on one track while recording its reference signal on another track??

To re-state the perceived problem:

The tape has music on it previously recorded and played back on another machine.
>>When i record over the music with other music, I can still hear a portion of the orignal song on one track.

>>When I record over the tape with no input siganl at all, all tracks go silent except for one, which still retians some artifact music information.

So it seems like the erase head is not applying proper bias to erase the tape.

Is there not just a "reference" votage that i can adjust the erase bias for??
 
Is there not just a "reference" votage that i can adjust the erase bias for??
Nop. :)
There's nothing to "adjust" in respect to erase head on those machines.
There's one single Bias "Power Station" for all and it serves erase heads 'directly' (through mechanical switch and through relay switch to be more specific, and it may be a good idea to check those, maybe dirty/oxy-rusty, you know).
I've made a simplified diagram (see attached pic).
You can adjust Record Bias for each Bias Switch Position by mean of vary-caps for each channel. In "the book" it is recommended to check/adjust Bias Traps first (not sure why). You can assume that yours are trapping just fine :)
Also the assumption is that you get to the point of BIAS adjustment after you went through Play Back / Heads / Record aligment (again, that is by the book). If you assume that there's no need or no issues anywhere there, or if you simply don't care, then you can try to tweak Record Bias.
You don't need MRL tape to adjust Record Bias level.
The procedure in general is: Use the fresh tape you want to use for recording, set the deck in record for the channel you are tweaking, set monitor switch to "TAPE" position , select the BIAS switch position 1 or 2 (depending on which one you going to adjust, the switch simply selects one of two adjustable capacitors).
You neet test tone Oscillator (source of steady signal, that is) to send to LINE input.
The frequency may vary (it depends), the level of the signal plus the input / output level knobs position need to give you "good reading" on the VU-meter.
In TEAC manual that I have it's 400Hz (-8dBm at input and at so-called speacified Input and Output level, which both are at knobs position pointing around "2 o'clock" or so).
So you start recording that signal and monitoring the VU-meter. Then you turn the Adjustable Cap to find the point where you get the highest reading on the meter - the Peak, and then from that point you turn the cap slightly more until the level drops a"bit".
How much to drop? That's a good question ...heh heh.
In the TEAC-book, they say - 0.5dB.
Different cook books, different meals - different stuff.

If you want to tweak by the book, you gotta get the book. And the book will tell you what else do you need to get so you can do it by the book :p

To get to the tweaking "Pod" - you need to remove bottom panel. I believe you will see sticker diagram on the inside of that panel showing different models and tweaking spots locations.
But, seriously, you better at least get the manual and read it one time :)

I am not sure if Rec Bias tweaking will fix your "problem" though. But I just can't know.

One thing you may want to try, though, before anything else.
Take fresh tape. Record all 4 channels something using THIS machine. Than erase and check if you still have exact the same "problem"

here's diagram:
 

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WOW!! Great expanation Dr Zee...thanks!!

I'll work on scouring up a manual for this bad boy. It would worth putting a bit of effort into this 2340sx, as it is otherwise in very nice condition. I'll check out those relays and give it a general good cleaning while waiting on the manual. This one was what I term a "closet case"....spent god knows how many years in the back of the previous owners den closet, and was quite dusty. Fortunately, it was in the house, so no temp/humidity induced issues, and no mice.:D

Am I understnding correctly how the erase /bias process works based on your diagram? The same bias signal is presented to both the erase head (high level signal) to erase the tape and the record head (lower/variable level signal) to push the tape in the optimum recording region (bad explanation, but I understand what it does there). If so,,,,,


then your record relay theory may be quite on the point. The machine seems to record well on all four channels on blank tape, suggesting on that the bias at the record head is fine, but does not totally delete the old signal on a previously recorded tape, suggesting that the bias signal at the erase head is either insufficient or otherwise out of spec. Since there does not seem to be any way to adjust the erase level independently, then I need to follow the signal path from the bias oscellator to the erase head make make sure the path is clean.

Sorry for the rambling and re-stating, but I am more of a mechanical troubleshooter than electrical, and am trying to make sure I understand the theory and practice.

Thnaks for your help and I'll let you know how it goes
 
Tech, if I had the exact situation as you discribed in the past then I (maybe!) had a better or any idea about which exactly wire to cut to disable the bomb. :D
But this is not the case.
So all I can do is to look into schematics pieces that I have here and try to describe what I see there it in some sort of "easy to understand" :rolleyes: way .
So at least maybe you get a general picture about what you are dealing with.
Here I've made a different diagram for you, that shows four channels.
There is one Bias oscillator there (100 kHz Power Plant). That AC power is being "distributed" through lines, mechanical switches, relay switches, adjustable caps.
Small "transformers" represent head/tape juncture and the lamps actually represent the "EFFECT on Tape". Yellow lams are steady and green is flashing&dimming. Makes sense? :)
The "GREEN" is audio signal in the situation when you actually recording something on that channel in addition to just erasing with no input signal.
So if you look at it from this general point then you may get an idea about what to check in the "system" to get the desired "Lightning Effect".
If you have one or more "lamps" not functioning well here or there, then you look what in that system may cose the problem.
Did you do the fresh tape "test" yet. It is still not clear to me. If you record on fresh tape one this deck and then erase (or record over) on this deck - do you still have the same incomplete erase problem?
In the manual for a3340s machine the only reference to ERASE is so called "erase efficiency", which is a simple and rather brutal procedure: recording 1kHz tone at 0dBm at input and the level turned around 2o'clock, then erasing that section, play it back after you erase it and measure the output at "specified output level" and expect the level to be no greater than -68dB. And this is it.
If your deck does not erase well - you are on your own :p :D

here are the light bulbs :)
 

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:)

Mike, how do you make a these diagrams? :eek: :D
 
Yes, very cool and VERY helpful graphics. i appreciate the time it took to do that.

OK....

Did a test recording on fresh, never before recorded tape.

The 2340s records and plays fine on all four tracks.

I purposely recorded some heavy rock at peak level to put a hot signal on the tape.

>>>recording over the "hot" signal with nothing, that is to say record mode on and no input sigal, I am wiping out the previously recorded signal on tracks 2+4 completely, 1 have a very faint "relic" signal on track 1 ( not enuff to make a difference, but track 3 has a noticable "relic".

I have not cracked the machine open yet, but intend to get round tuit this week.



Irritating.....
 
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