New studio space...considering my options.

Actually, not true, you don't want the most dense fibreboard available. You want to target 3lb/ft3 which is what OC703 is. OC705 is 6lb/ft3 and that is too dense. Sound can't penetrate into the fibers as easily and reflects back into the room.

Rockwool RW3 is 60kg/m3 which is 3.7lb/ft3, so the two products are pretty similar in regard to acoustic absorbtion.

Yeah I was only referring to insulation Chili.
 
Rolled fiberglass is not what I would ever bother using for acoustic treatment or traps, because you would need a lot of it, and then stuff/compress it.
Like I said...I used Owens Corning 703 and 703 FRK which is no better or worse than Rockwool at equal thickness for acoustic use. The thing about the 703 I liked better is that when you handle it, it doesn't chunk off as easily as Rockwool...and at the time I was building my traps, I was able to find a really good deal on the 703 and 703 FRK. It was easier to get than the Rockwool or Roxul.

Also...not that fiberglass is 100% safe-n-healthy...but Rockwool has additional oils and binding agents, and when initially unpacking for installation, can be quite full of dust from the manufacturing process, that you don't want to inhale.
That's why I built my fiberglass traps outside, and sealed them within the frames before they ever came inside.

So bottom line, and again my point...neither of those products are specifically/solely meant for "acoustic treatment". They are both primarily for heat insulating used during building construction.

Where I am I cannot get 703 so I went with the best available ..... RW3.

Regards compressing the fluffy thermal/loft insulation ....... It will not be as good as the 'proper' product RW3 or equivalent. It may have some effect but will not be the same and doubtful as efficient regards sound.

The reasons are as regards what Chili mentioned. When these acoustic panels are made then in theory the automatic process is laying down the fibers in a uniformed and set density process so all should be equal across the panel.

If you get something like loft insulation or other and then just compress it. You will end up with areas where the fiberglass is too dense and areas where the fiberglass is not dense enough. So the result will be less efficient areas of fiberglass which may be impenetrable for sound and also areas which will be insufficient to perform as well as required.

I know you do not intend to use compressed roll loft insulation but I am just talking along the same lines and explaining why there is a difference. If there was no difference believe me I would not have spent the money I did on RW3. :eek:

Any particles from insulation entering your lungs will not be beneficial to your health. Masks at all times.

On this point I have seen various videos on youtube regards making bass traps and acoustic panels. The material some are using to cover these fiberglass traps/panels is not sufficient. The material used should be able to prevent any fibers from escaping into the room. As long as air can pass through the material then so will sound. But the material should be of a tight woven type that will prevent fibers from escaping. Otherwise what is the point of the material except to look pretty.
 
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The material some are using to cover these fiberglass traps/panels is not sufficient. The material used should be able to prevent any fibers from escaping into the room. As long as air can pass through the material then so will sound. But the material should be of a tight woven type that will prevent fibers from escaping. Otherwise what is the point of the material except to look pretty.

I wrapped the triple sheets of 703 with ulta-thin plastic....pretty much like plastic food wrapping film...and then I added a layer of felt to both sides, and finally a layer of acoustic cloth on both sides, for the finished look, since these are movable traps. One side has a single 703 FRK sheet, which acts a bit like a membrane.
The thin plastic doesn't let any fibers pass, but has pretty much no effect on the sound waves, especially the mid/lower frequencies.

I documented the whole building process here: Bass Trap Madness
 
Firstly -Aauuugh! rewiring! Second, i would let the contractor know about going from two rooms to one asap in case the roof support needs to be changed due to the missing walls' support. Sounds like it's going to be a neat project.
 
...i would let the contractor know about going from two rooms to one asap in case the roof support needs to be changed due to the missing walls' support.

Yeah...I'm planning to give him a call. We only had the preliminary meeting and conversation...but at the time, the one or two room option was mentioned.
I want to draw it all out and give him a clearer picture of what I want, since he's mostly looking at it as more typical house addition, although I did tell him it was going to be a music studio, and that I wanted multiple layers of sheetrock, etc...but know that I'm formulating a better picture in my head of what I want, I can get it down on paper, and then let him price it out.
Like we also talked of adding a low deck outside...so that it would tie in with my existing two decks from the rest of the house...but now I'm having second thoughts about that, and might not want to put a door and deck on the addition.

In a nutshell...this was going to originally be, just an addition...but some things changed for me, and suddenly it became the new studio addition...so some of my initial thinking was still revolving around that original plan, now I want to get much more specific and really focus on a proper studio build since I have this opportunity. I have to consider not just the addition, but the whole studio layout...where the console will sit, which direction..etc..etc...so I will draw it out and then get it all to the contractor. With the potential June start...I have some time to adjust things. At least he'll give me an initial ballpark cost, and then I can better gauge how much further I want to embellish this building project. I do want this to be really sweet...not just a big room with audio gear in it.
 
The material used should be able to prevent any fibers from escaping into the room. As long as air can pass through the material then so will sound. But the material should be of a tight woven type that will prevent fibers from escaping. Otherwise what is the point of the material except to look pretty.

We're not going to start this old argument again are we?
Once the insulation is in place there's no more particles/fibers getting expelled from the it. If you're allergic to it, wear a mask when constructing your traps or putting them in place - or have someone else do it for you. If you're so allergic that it 'bothers' you just sitting there, then go with the compressed cotton batts.
 
We're not going to start this old argument again are we?
Once the insulation is in place there's no more particles/fibers getting expelled from the it. If you're allergic to it, wear a mask when constructing your traps or putting them in place - or have someone else do it for you. If you're so allergic that it 'bothers' you just sitting there, then go with the compressed cotton batts.

Getting boring now and I havent a clue to what argument you are referring too. Must be before my time. Or is this going foreverrrrrrrrrrrr.
 
With stationary traps on the walls...I wouldn't worry about fibers constantly falling out of them, if you use a good tight-weave material over the insulation.
If you have an acoustic "cloud" hanging over your head from the ceiling, it might be better to use some kind of 100% sealing layer.

With the big bass traps I made, they get moved around all the time, so I wanted them completely sealed.

Anyway...when you make a trap, hold it against the light, and then slap it a couple of times and see if you get a cloud of particles coming out or not...and then make your call if it's safe enough or not for you.

I appreciate people's thoughts about different aspects of a studio build...but for this thread and my planned studio build, we can put aside the discussions about which type of material to use for traps and how best to construct them. There's been plenty of those discussions, and I'm not really looking for "Studio Building 101" info here.
I have other construction things to consider for the studio plans...but making traps is really not one of them, they are pretty straightforward to make or buy. :)
 
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Miroslav did you ever try and make or incorporate any diffusers in your studio? There was a thread on here I think where a board material was full of holes and used this way. I remember seeing this board from my youth in something and inquired about it.

There are different variations of this type of diffuser used in all sorts of buildings but the people who make it in the UK are not interested in supplying small quantities. The ones I found anyway.

Different variations of this companies products............. Acoustic Panels For Wall And Ceiling Cladding - Gustafs Scandinavia
 
Miroslav did you ever try and make or incorporate any diffusers in your studio?

I have a couple of very small (non-mathematical) diffusers on my back wall, along with broadband panels...but TBH, diffusers are not really critical in smaller, home studios, because they reflect sound, and in smaller rooms, you usually need absorption much more.
In a bigger space, the sound coming off of diffusers has more room to spread out, so it can help balance out the overall reverberation of the livelier, larger room.
In smaller studio, you often need to go more toward a dead room, which helps create the illusion of a bigger space.

In this new studio build, I will probably install some bigger diffusers on the back wall....but I haven't given much thought to which ones. I have to read up some more on the virtues of the different types.
I was checking these out awhile back...and I recall signing up on the site, and I was getting build plans and info emailed to me...they are pretty involved, but great looking, and the math for them is interesting, the way they actually diffuse the sound.

Acoustic Diffusers: Design, Optimization & DIY Diffuser Blueprints
 
Update on the new studio plans...

Met with my contractor again today, and we went into the build project with a little more detail this time. We discussed the whole pouring of slab thing and also the open/cathedral/vaulted ceiling...and it looks like we're going to completely rip out the roof (%!#&...it was re-shingled just a few years ago)...but I'm talking just the roof for the studio portion, not my whole house! :D
The new studio involves and an earlier attachment to the house that I'm adding onto, with the foyer that joins that to the rest of the house...so the roof will only be ripped off of that existing attachment.

After reviewing the construction of the existing roof, and considering the plans to go to the cathedral/vaulted ceiling...it would take too much effort to shore up the current roof per new codes, etc...so much easier, and not much difference in total cost to just rip it off and then do it right.
Plus, two of the existing walls that will remain are currently 2"x4"...so he's going to build them out to match the new walls which will be 2"x6"...then redo all the insulation with compressed, highest R value, and then do a 1/2" drywall followed by a second 5/8" drywall, all screwed-n-glued...and then there will be a final finish layer of "something"....possibly wood, or a combination of materials, that will tie in with the internal acoustic treatment.
The contractor has done builds with audio/acoustics in mind...so he's familiar with some of the special needs and extra layers, etc.

He is also going to frame out a floor on top of the slab, add a layer of compressed insulation, then over that a layer of plywood, and then the final hardwood flooring...that way the floor won't be ice cold in the winter with the concrete slab, because with the addition, the slab will be above ground for a good portion...plus, this flooring approach will allow me to run some conduit to where I need it further out in the room for running audio and electric to my racked gear "island" behind my mix position. There will probably be a few conduits, some for power, others for audio....I just have figure out in advance where things will be going when I move into the room...that way I can have easy connectivity back to the gear and the bays from any point in the room.
I told him I need the floor to be "pro basketball court solid...he said it would be. :D

We will also be running baseboard heat around the room, and for cooling there will be one of the new silent units, with A/C venting running through the chase at the top of the roof/ceiling. The A/C will also include a heat pump, so I can use that in the fall and spring months, and the baseboard will be there for the sub-30 degree winter days as a booster.

He's going to price it all out a bit more in detail, and let me know, but we already discussed ballpark cost, and it is all well within my budget...so this project is a 100% go right now, and this first phase will include the addition of a full bathroom, which isn't directly connected to the studio build, but it will be right off the foyer that connects the house to what will be the new studio.
I've got other work for him around the house, because as I said earlier, this studio build is part of a more broader house remodel or upgrade if you will...so those other things will be phase 2 and 3 after the studio is done (because I need to empty my current studio into the new studio before we get to phase 3).

Anyway...still looking at a June kickoff, and the studio/bathroom portion should be done by end of August...and then the other two phases in Sep/Oct, since I want to be completely finished with all this by the time the leaves come down. It will be a lot of work, but I am determined to see this through, and really looking forward to a new studio space. :)

More to follow....
 
Sounds really cool. I hope the build goes as quickly as you plan-even the best laid plans and all that. The inconvenience can get maddening at a certain point!
 
I hope the build goes as quickly as you plan-even the best laid plans and all that. The inconvenience can get maddening at a certain point!

Yeah...I hope so too. AFA the studio build portion and the bathroom...the contractor is now saying 8-10 weeks, since we made the project a bit more complex with the removal of the roof...and I'm going to add another 4 weeks on top of that to cover delays. So it should done by the end of the summer...and then I've got another two months to wrap up the rest of my house remodeling plans, which should be OK. There's really only a small amount of outside work left after the studio/bathroom...the rest of the remodeling is all inside work, and even if we get into November, it won't be bad...but yeah, I'll have to move a lot of furniture and crap around, besides having to move my entire contents of the current studio into the new one.

After that...it will be another couple of months in the new studio doing things...but I'm hoping to get ahead of that, by working on the new cabling and some other stuff in anticipation, since I will have 5-6 months of time to prep and stay ahead (and out of the way) of the construction/remodeling stuff.

Yeah...in a perfect world! :p
 
Dont know if this has been mentioned......havent read every post....
But what's the permitting situation in your part of the world?
Buddy of mine in LA is doing a studio and been waiting over a year for approval. Fees had all been paid, and quite a bit I might add, but the city's treating it as it was free money.

And then there are more rural areas out my way where you can get permits for a free standing structure with up to 25 foot high ceilings (think barn) cheap and hassle free, and above all fast.

What's your scene?

Oh, btw even 24x24 is too small, you need that just to hang all your guitars. :D
 
Oh, btw even 24x24 is too small, you need that just to hang all your guitars. :D

I'm already giving that some thought, and may possibly push out another wall and make it 32'x24'...but I have to see what the contractor says. :)
The thing we are looking at is the pouring of the foundation and then the addition of the concrete slab to the existing slab.
How best to do that, since there may be some difficulty getting a cement truck in close enough...and he's saying they may need to get a cement pump with the extended hoses/tube to reach far enough..etc...etc.

That said...considering I have all the guitars now in a much smaller space...if I have to, I'll make do with the 24'x24' space. ;)


In my town building permits cost 10% of the total cost - YIKES!

In my township this is what they list on the fee schedule:
"Application fee of $100, plus $5 for every $1000 cost of construction, which is determined by multiplying $100 per square foot per each level."

If I do the math...24'x24'=576 square feet, although I'm not sure if they will count it all, because currently there is a 14'x24' structure there...but let's go with the whole thing.
So 576 sqft * $100 would make the cost of construction estimate $57,600 (they use the higher amount of the two between their estimate vs actual cost).
$57,600 divided by $1000 = $57.6 * $5 = $288
So the whole permit thing would cost $100 fee + $288 = $388

At the end of the day, I always have my fallback plan...which was to leave the current studio and simply add to it the adjoining room, which would also give me good square footage but a little less than 24'x24' build...though I wouldn't have the high ceiling...but I would have a 2-room setup, and no need to completely rip out the current studio. My current studio is in a 14'x22' space, and the adjoining room is 12'x14', plus if I gut the closet space (which I would), that's another 2'.
 
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Another update...

First I need to correct one the current dimensions I'm working with...somehow when I measured one wall, I was inside another room and not realizing that the wall extended another 2' outside...:facepalm:...so what I'm currently looking at building (OD) is 24' by 26' (not 24'), with the roof peak at 14'.

Today I had a 30 minute call with an acoustics guy out in California, and we discussed my plans and what could/should be done. Granted, they sell acoustics solutions, so that was of course pitched as one of the "should" be done options, but I expected that there would be a bit of a sales pitch, though what I really wanted to sort out were my studio dimensions and if I needed to adjust my LxWxH ratio.
I was happy to hear that he was quite impressed with the size of the space, saying that the amount of volume I'm looking at is really good, and some guys would kill for that much space for a mixing environment, since out in CA, real estate is expensive, and he said most guys are stuck with smaller, 12' wide rooms...etc.
Ideally, he said the perfect dimensions would be 31'L x 27'W x 14'H but what I had already was quite good and very workable, and that at this volume I didn't really need to concern myself so much with the almost square space, because he said that's really an issue when you get into smaller rooms...10'x10', 12'x12', 14'x14'...and the like, because there just isn't enough volume for the sound to occupy without causing issues.

Anyway...he said if I could get to the 31'x27' size, it would almost guarantee very easy management of the low end down to 30Hz...but of course, he was still selling me their acoustic solutions...which would run anywhere from $15k to $20k for that size.
Not really sure I want to add another $20k to the project, plus the extra cost to increase the size to the ideal dimensions...not to mention that he agreed with most town codes I would still have put up at least one layer of drywall, which would actually go OVER his acoustic treatment, which is intended to go into the wall as you frame/build it. So I'm not seeing how that treatment would matter as much once you drop a layer of drywall over it, plus then another layer of wood over the drywall to help reduce the reflectivity, etc....etc...etc.

I will discuss the possibility of going a little bigger with the dimensions with my contractor...but it may or may not happen. It more foundation work and more slab pouring, and so on...so it's something to discuss first, and I'll see what he says.
At any rate, I would be quite happy with the 26'x24' structure, which would give me inside diameter of 25'x23'...and if I add some storage/iso booth at one side...I would end up with a 25'L x 18'-19'W, depending how deep I want the storage/iso booths.
TBH, I can actually live without the iso-booths, since I've never used them in all these years, and there has not been any need...but I need some storage for mics, stands, etc...though I don't need the entire side to be lined with just storage...so I may toss in a booth too, mostly for guitar cabs, but big enough to walk into at least....I'll see.
If the total dimensions go to a bigger size...then it will be even easier to add the storage/booths and still have a pretty wide room.
 
You could even build a couple of ISO "boxes" for bass/guitar speakers/amps. Would take up less space but still break up waveforms?
 
You could even build a couple of ISO "boxes" for bass/guitar speakers/amps. Would take up less space but still break up waveforms?

That's where I've been kicking things around in my head...do I even want/need a somewhat larger, "walk-in" iso-booth, because it's then that I would need to push things out to at least 5' internal width for storage and iso-booths.
I want some storage on side...but if I only do more typical 2'-3' closet type of storage (there would plenty, along one entire wall)...I would then just include a couple of smaller "amp-size" iso-booths.
It sound like splitting hairs, do I go with 3' or 5' depth on those things...but I'm more focused on maximizing the room space, so even 2' more of room space down an entire wall, is significant, because if the increase in total volume when you consider it would be floor to top of ceiling/roof.

I have to talk with my contractor...there are a few small "nuts" that need to be cracked no matter which way I go, so I'll see what he says. I don't mind getting in a bit deeper than planned, I just don't want it to turn into any kind of construction headache.
 
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