Recording both with mic and direct input via Focusrite

manuelvdn

New member
I'm using a Focusrite Scarlett and I want to record my guitar with both direct input and a mic in front of my amp without having to play it both seperately (because obviously you won't get the same result exactly).
We did bass that way, but unlike our bass amp, my guitar amp (Vox AC15C1) doesn't have the option to plug in a cable that you can connect to your focusrite for recording direct input while having your amp still amplify your guitar sound. The option on the bass amp is called direct output if I'm not mistaken

So now I'm wondering is it possible to do this with the focusrite inbetween? So I'm thinking something like:
- guitar goes directly in Focusrite (=> direct input recording)
- Some output from Focusrite goes to amp which amplifies the sound
- Put mic in front of amp which goes in the 2nd input from the Focusrite (=> amplified recording)

I fooled around a bit with the Focusrite with this mindset but haven't find the solution. Also a bit afraid to blow something up because of wrong usage of inputs and stuff (or is this impossible?*).


*I'm rather new to home recording, and don't know that much about power/electronics/...
 
You're not going to blow anything up - but the outputs from the focusrite are set up inside the computer - so it feeds sound to the computer and then of the routing is set in the machine, it will appear back out the focurite. People usually use this system for monitoring - so you just need to give it a go - or of course just buy a cheap DI box
 
Use a DI and plug the guitar into that. Take the XLR (low-Z) output to the Focusrite, and the Thru 1/4" to the amp, which you mic. Assign the appropriate inputs in your DAW to the two signals (of course). Then you can do what you want with the straight/dry guitar signal - use amp/fx sims, pan, eq, reamp, whatever.

For this kind of use, I think any well-rated, passive DI will work. (Opinions will vary, however.) I have a few, including the Radial Pro, and a couple cheaper ones from GC/MF (can't recall name). They all work.

Radial ProDI 1-channel Passive Instrument Direct Box | Sweetwater
 
To be honest friend, if you just take 3 jacks and solder them pin for pin you get guitar in plus an amp feed and a feed to the hi Z on the AI. That is all there is inside the vast majority of DI boxes that give you a slave out to an amp.

You just might get a hum aka ground loop but we can beat that if it happens. Nothing "smoky" will happen.

Dave.
 
You could also achieve your guitar sound with pedals and send it all through your typical bass amp setup.
 
As others have said, you'll best accomplish this with a DI Box.
These go for as low as $20, though I'd recommend throwing a little more money if you have the cash.
DI Box Google search

Thing is, OP already HAS a "DI", the instrument input on the AI. DI boxes come in two flavours*. Passive and active. The passives use a transformer of around 10:1 to get a moderately high input impedance but this is rarely more than 120k and often below 100k. Then passive alter the tone of the guitar, a property that also varies guitar to guitar. Many folks LIKE the change of tone but change there be.

Active DIs can have an input Z of one meg Ohm or more and are generally more "transparent" but good ones are quite pricey.

The jack splitter adds nothing but a bit of capacitance which you will get anyway with a two way slave setup.

*Lots of things get called "DI" boxes, often 1:1 line isolation boxes. This is just confusing to the noobs.

Dave.
 
Thing is, OP already HAS a "DI", the instrument input on the AI. DI boxes come in two flavours*. Passive and active. The passives use a transformer of around 10:1 to get a moderately high input impedance but this is rarely more than 120k and often below 100k. Then passive alter the tone of the guitar, a property that also varies guitar to guitar. Many folks LIKE the change of tone but change there be.

Active DIs can have an input Z of one meg Ohm or more and are generally more "transparent" but good ones are quite pricey.

The jack splitter adds nothing but a bit of capacitance which you will get anyway with a two way slave setup.

*Lots of things get called "DI" boxes, often 1:1 line isolation boxes. This is just confusing to the noobs.

Dave.

good clarification. thanks Dave.

on that note, what's a good 'transparent' DI box that you would recommend?
 
There is a ton of DI boxes and it can get confusing. Not a hard and fast rule but usually, passive pickups, use active DI, active pickups use passive DI. Di Makers - Radial, Orchid, Hughes & Kettner, Torpedo, Countryman, etc.
Hell I use a cheap Whirlwind IMP2 DI a lot, for live, and recording. It's not as cool as my radial, but it does a good job.
 
There is a ton of DI boxes and it can get confusing. Not a hard and fast rule but usually, passive pickups, use active DI, active pickups use passive DI. Di Makers - Radial, Orchid, Hughes & Kettner, Torpedo, Countryman, etc.
Hell I use a cheap Whirlwind IMP2 DI a lot, for live, and recording. It's not as cool as my radial, but it does a good job.

Q: I understand the issue whit passive DI, but what if I use a "clean" guitar pedal (like a EQ set to unity) and use that as a buffer? That way it is all good whit impedance matching right?

This is what I mean:

Guitar -> pedal -> Passive DI
 
I plug my electric into my Radial PZ-Pre, the the XLR DI output to the AI, and the 'amp out' to the amp (which gets miked). I don't do it all the time, but a couple of times when I did, I ended up using the DIed track rather than the amped one.
 
Q: I understand the issue whit passive DI, but what if I use a "clean" guitar pedal (like a EQ set to unity) and use that as a buffer? That way it is all good whit impedance matching right?

This is what I mean:

Guitar -> pedal -> Passive DI

Excellent! I am always telling folks that a PROPER buffered* pedal is the solution to many guitar interface problems. Want to record guitar straight into a laptop jack? Normally not good but with a pedal "off" in circuit, job's a good'un.

But you STILL don't need the DI passive OR active! The pedal will come out at guitar level but at a much lower impedance (resistance really) rarely more than 1000 Ohms which is high for pro kit but easily low enough for short runs. It can now feed a line input, the HZ input and an amp. The jack splitter is also much better done downstream of the right pedal.

*Not! One of those engineering oxymorons a "true bypass" pedal. AFAIK all Boss pedals are fully buffered as are the products of a company (cough) known to me.

Dave.
 
Get an ABY pedal: 1Out goes to the amp, the other to the interface.
?? An ABY is usually just a switch?

The splitter cable or jacks system WORKS, all else is just unnecessary lily gilding and the splitter works even better if the guitar signal is buffered as above.

Would a picture help?

Dave.
 
I just know it works for me. I read that you are more likely to get unwanted noise with a simple splitter however if it’s working for you then cool. The other advantage I find with the ABY pedal is you can easily switch between 2 amps or run them both at the same time.
 
I just know it works for me. I read that you are more likely to get unwanted noise with a simple splitter however if it’s working for you then cool. The other advantage I find with the ABY pedal is you can easily switch between 2 amps or run them both at the same time.

You may have "read" that a splitter gives unwanted noise (define "noise?) but in practice there is no reason it should. I would also like to know the electrical difference between an active ABY switcher and an active buffer and a splitter cable?

Both setups CAN produce ground hum problems but there are fixes for that.

Dave.
 
I don't know why you have the word "read" in quotation marks: a little condescending there mate. I "read" it in the Sound on Sound forums. Noise is defined as unwanted hum, crackle, general interference and anything else you do not want to come through either the DI signal or the amped signal. Like I said, if you get good results then good for you: I'm just offering my tuppence worth, as requested by the OP. I do not know what the technical differences are to be perfectly honest.

If the OP is interested, the switch I use is the EHX Switchblade Plus.
 
I don't know why you have the word "read" in quotation marks: a little condescending there mate. I "read" it in the Sound on Sound forums. Noise is defined as unwanted hum, crackle, general interference and anything else you do not want to come through either the DI signal or the amped signal. Like I said, if you get good results then good for you: I'm just offering my tuppence worth, as requested by the OP. I do not know what the technical differences are to be perfectly honest.

If the OP is interested, the switch I use is the EHX Switchblade Plus.

I know the SoS forums very well (as ef37a) and had I read that statement, as a bare, unqualified claim, I would have challenged it as I have your good self. There is no technical reason why passively splitting (really just putting in parallel) a guitar signal should introduce noise of any kind. "We" did it all the time A/B testing amplifiers (the amp switching was done with a monster bespoke relay switcher) .

As for the technical difference between a buffered split and an active switch? None whatsoever. I shall however look up that EHX jobby and see if I can find a schematic. You never know, might be something I had not thought of.

Not condescending friend I just have a dislike of throw out statements that I know to be technically "wrong". There is SO much about audio electronics that confuses peeps and I try in my small way to reduce it. So, Peace? Buy you a pint if you are ever around NN5 5P*!

Ah, the EHX is in fact a totally passive switcher, 9V is just for the LEDs so in fact it is just the same topology as the cable splitter.

Dave.
 
No worries man, I just have a dislike of quotation marks lol. I am relatively new to this recording malarkey so I tend to go by advice from, as I see it, much more experienced folks than me. Had I read your advice before going with the ABY switch I may well have gone a different route. It’s just an option at the end of the day, not saying one is better than the other. Peace indeed ��

Oh and I do like pints �� lol!
 
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