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Thread: ableton DAW, are more vst's necessary e.g. N.I./NKS partners?

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    Question ableton DAW, are more vst's necessary e.g. N.I./NKS partners?

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    I have the ableton DAW (not used yet!):

    The N.I./NKS vst's samples sound amazing! ...however they are expensive! Do I really need them in addition to what the DAW it self has to offer? e.g. 'JAEGER'.

    ...can the same music be generated just with the DAW alone?
    ...are they worth the extra money?
    Last edited by the_doc735; 09-17-2020 at 14:34.

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    They are not necessary.

    But nor are they unnecessary.

    What you need in the way of VSTs is determined by what you are creating, and what sounds you need to achieve that creation.

    Furthermore, thare heaps of free VSTs, soundfonts and so on available that may also fill your needs.

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    Abelton's plug ins are pretty good. I have the suite and when I started, I used them a lot. After about 10 years, I find I don't really use them much at all. I do like their tools like sampler, and how you can create your own instruments. But the other plug ins I do not use as much, but can't say they are bad, I just use something else.

    I would use what you have first since you really paid for them. They will get you where you want to go. Get the 3rd party plug ins maybe later when you understand why you need them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gecko zzed View Post
    What you need in the way of VSTs is determined by what you are creating, and what sounds you need to achieve that creation.
    When I first discovered the existence and viability of VSTis it was like all my dreams had come true on the same day. The thought of having access to any instrument I had ever wanted to use was even more meaningful to me from a selfish point of view than the impending birth of my wife and I's second child that year {2004} because that I took in my stride. That was nature, that was life, my joy when it came to the kids was a continuous one that I didn't particularly dream about or dwell on futuristically ~ I lived it and enjoyed it in real time. But I'd long housed ideas for songs and the kinds of instruments I wanted to utilize ~ pretty much all of them ! Just before I first heard of VSTis, I was going to go to a couple of music colleges in London and ask if there were students there wanting experience of playing on amateur recordings.
    Fortunately VSTis saved me having to do that !
    Although I've long been fortunate to have friends that play instruments that I can't or sing.
    The point of the nostalgic ramble is to bear out what gekko zzed said there; having the idea beforehand of where you are going musically gives you the scope to decide what VSTis you'll need. I think that sometimes way too many instruments and variations of instruments come in certain VSTi bundles. Sure, you don't have to use them all {I'd be surprised if anyone could} but it's a bit like going out to eat; sometimes, all you actually want is some grilled salmon and fries but your plate comes piled with enough salad to feed a street, you get so much bread and other starters beforehand and it's easy to feel obligated to eat the whole lot when all you wanted was grilled salmon and......


    Quote Originally Posted by DM60 View Post
    when I started, I used them a lot. After about 10 years, I find I don't really use them much at all
    For me, it depends on the VSTis. For example, certain keyboards {pianos, organs, electric pianos, synthesizers} are more likely to get a get a more regular airing than others like the clavinet or mellotron. I very rarely use percussion VSTis {the odd orchestral piece or Indian piece} because I or a friend can do that with actual percussion and I find most VSTi percussion pretty lame. I never use drums or guitars for the same reason {the former not the latter !}.
    I discovered fairly early on in my virtual instrument life that having too many VSTis in a song and definitely having them too upfront was detrimental to the song's sonic health !

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    but what if you're deliberately looking for an artificial drum sound like the Roland 'TR's' in rave/trance?

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    Quote Originally Posted by the_doc735 View Post
    but what if you're deliberately looking for an artificial drum sound like the Roland 'TR's' in rave/trance?
    With the sampler, you can build your own drums. I did a song once where I made the drum kit a plastic garbage can, a seat, a pot and a couple of other things, turned it into a kit in Ableton and away I went. So yea, the sampler engine they have in that software is pretty good. Probably as good as anything you could buy third part. Plus it maps better that any third party.
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_doc735 View Post
    but what if you're deliberately looking for an artificial drum sound like the Roland 'TR's' in rave/trance?
    Seek and you shall find.

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    Quote Originally Posted by the_doc735 View Post
    but what if you're deliberately looking for an artificial drum sound like the Roland 'TR's' in rave/trance?
    That then falls into the 'necessary' class, and is precisely what I meant when saying "What you need in the way of VSTs is determined by what you are creating, and what sounds you need to achieve that creation."

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    Quote Originally Posted by grimtraveller View Post
    I very rarely use percussion VSTis {the odd orchestral piece or Indian piece} because I or a friend can do that with actual percussion and I find most VSTi percussion pretty lame. I never use drums or guitars for the same reason {the former not the latter !}.
    ...but what if you're deliberately looking for an artificial drum sound like the Roland 'TR's' in rave/trance?
    ...and what about 'Studio Drummer'/kontakt? Natural?

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    Quote Originally Posted by the_doc735 View Post
    ...but what if you're deliberately looking for an artificial drum sound like the Roland 'TR's' in rave/trance?
    Well, if you're asking me in particular, my reply is a very unsatisfactory and boring one ~ I never am. But if I was, well, I have quite a few VSTis and there'll be an approximation there somewhere. When I first bought them, back in 2004~6 the programmes would have so many different instruments. Something like Sampletank 2 had so many instruments, it was ridiculous. MTRON and Mike Pinder have more mellotron sounds between them than I'm ever going to use, Celtic instruments has so many pipes and fiddles, Miroslav Philharmonik has more orchestral sounds than probably all the orchestras in Europe combined {}, B4 has tons of Hammond organs, Lounge Lizard has just about every Fender Rhodes and Wurlitzer electric piano going etc. The plethora of scope and choice could be mental health issue inducing !
    By 2009 when I came to load my programmes into my then new laptop, certainly with Sampletank, there were loads of instruments that I didn't load in {thankfully you have the choice} because I knew I wouldn't use them and I hate clutter. I actually sold Sonik Synth because it was basically a re~run of Sampletank but in a blue box rather than a red one.
    But of course sometimes, one is looking for a specific instrument. Back in 2010 I wanted a steel drum. I know a few people that have played them in the past but I didn't really want to go through the rigmarole of resurrecting relationships with people that had come to a natural end years before just so they might play on my songs so I was going to buy one or a hang and teach myself. It was as I was looking into them that I came across this guy who put a sample of his steel drum online so I downloaded it and it was brilliant. I've used it quite a few times since then. So that's what I meant by "seek and you shall find." I spent about 8 years hunting down a sitar that actually sounded real. I went through hoops, man. But it was worth it. When looking for a particular VSTi, just know that somewhere it is out there. You may have to dig for a while.
    Of course, you may have to give up sometimes. It was hearing this double bass on a CD given away in a copy of either computer music or sound on sound back in 2004 that alerted me to VSTis in the first place. The double bass sounded so rich and beautiful. It really was like the player was standing next to me. So I sold my double bass, thinking that it would be easy to get a decent VSTi one.
    Wrong !
    By 2012, having gone through Trilogy, Danny Thompson bass samples and a few others and finding that an acoustic bass guitar is nothing like a double bass no matter how inventive I got {and I'm a serial experimenter} I had to admit defeat and ended up buying an actual one. Sure, I'm all bent out of shape when I play it and my hands and fingers hurt and it's below the water line in quality but it's the sound of a double bass !

    Quote Originally Posted by the_doc735 View Post
    what about 'Studio Drummer'/kontakt? Natural?
    I'm probably the 2nd worst person on planet earth right now to ask about sampled drums. I never use them. I did try. I did the sampled drums, I did the electric drums triggering samples and they never did it for me. I had given my drums away to my nephew to go that route and ended up having to buy a new kit when I concluded that I preferred an actual kit and a drummer. Of course I'm aware that this is not an option for probably most home recorders and that's just the way it is. I also recognize that acoustic drums don't fit every style of music. Some trance and house would end up sounding nearly like disco {or at least experimental disco} if one used an acoustic kit !

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