WHat's the deal with A/D/A and outboard Pres?

B

BobbyBalow

Guest
I am trying to start getting a legit setup going here. I currently own a presonus firepod which has a clock and a/d/a all built into it along with a very nice firewire output.

I just purchased several high end preamps and I can't utilize them with my firepod correctly because it only has 2 preamp inputs...

Now I know you can buy outboard a/d/a and a word clock and hook them up to get some amazing sounds. Now my question is what a/d/a (Perferably less than $1500) would be able to convert 8 channels (more if possible!) from my pres and run it into my computer? I'm unfarmiliar with how the digital signal gets routed to the computer (via usb/firewire) from the ada and what other things I would need to get it set up. I'm hoping some of you out there that are farmiliar with all of this stuff can give me some insight.

I am using a PC so that rules out some of ada...

ALso a sample rate of 96k is fine with me. Humans can't really hear sound much above 44.1. Maybe up to 96k impacts the sound (higher order harmonic crap) but I couldn't see why people waste their money on 192k if we can't hear frequencies in ~50khz...
 
Sorry I started ranting at the end there...

I'm looking to upgrade to an external a/d/a and I don't really understand how it connects to the computer. DOes that have something to do with the AES/EBU thing? I don't even know what the heck that is!

On top of that, I would like some suggestions for a decent a/d/a in the ball park of $1500 that can handle 8 channels of audio.

I've heard a lot of good things about RME...
 
there are far more options for A/D/A then can be covered in a paragraph or two

but for roughly $1200 you can get a RME PCI card (HDSP PCI) that goes in the computer and a multiface breakout box with 8 analog inputs plus other I/O options for later expansion

RME converters are good, their driver development has been solid for a number of years and they have a decent reputation with regard to support

If you actually know no more then what you admit, with no more information concerning what you are trying to accomplish there is no way to tell whether any product would be a reasonable choice. At the project studio I am primarily using a combination of several generations of MOTU gear with additional combination of low rent mic pre's attached to A/D via ADAT connectors plus a handful of boutique mic pre's, and some intermediate (onyx) mic pres, system is modular and pieces come and go as needed but while I seldom record more then ten or twelve simultaneous tracks have capacity for at least twenty-four.

The mobile rack is built around a pair of laptops, an Alesis IO 26 and Onyx 800r (laptops divide tracking and editing duties, not tracking divided between multiple laptops). Point is not to tout any particular bit of gear but indicate most likely your needs and expectations will evolve, learning to spot the gear that has flexibility to grow with you is part of the learning process. How will one piece of gear 'clock' to other bits of gear? A box labeled 32 channel I/0 has 8 analog in's, what are the street prices for gear that gets you to those other 24 inputs? If $1200 is spent one typically wants gear to have a reasonable half life, more then a couple of years. If it won't you might well be better off sticking with something cheaper (and presonus converters should certainly be adequate for getting started) and as you figure out how you work, see what remains available at that time.

For good or ill firewire is becoming the default bus . . . but there will always remain 'issues' that will be dependent on specific systems. But most companies are moving in direction of phasing out PCI interface cards and few are jumping into the PCIe market, so while, generally speaking I'd still be comfortable with a RME PCI option, attempting to guess how well that will be serviced by computers you own now, the ones you buy in the future is part of the guessing game. (One of my MOTU 324 cards has been installed in at least a half dozen machines going back to Win 98SE, not a decade but certainly 8 years, but its a 5 volt card and might not survive the next hardware upgrades). While in theory (if I remember correctly) a standard ieee1394 bus can handle 88 tracks of 24 bit 96 kbs (I still tend to track 44.1 (or 48 for film work)) you typically share a single bus (in the average desk top machine) with everything else using firewire. If you're streaming data to firewire drives you'll cut track count in half. And reality is that various other types of over head will reduce that capability as well.

Anyway main point is that there is no one size fits all solution. You don't say which presonus interface you have, nor how comfortable you are with the presonsus interface so while I'd have no problem recommending RME solutions to clients in any general way, a less expensive presonsus now gets you trackingm acquiring experience to have a better idea of what you will need in two three five years for a purchase you spend six seven months researching, being poised to acquire when a great deal on that item crosses your desk (in six seven eight, twelve months) . . .

with no more info then we have all that can be honestly said is that RME is good product and generally speaking it would not be a poor investment. (RME markets firewire, PCI, I think PCIe & cardbus options)
 
Hi

I'm a bit confused.....can you be a bit more specific about what you actually want to do. Plus, can you put a link into your exact unit so I can see what it has got. The Firepod I can see has 8 inputs NOT 2...

I should be able to help yo uout if I know a bit more, as Im sure others will as well.

Cheers

Max
 
an appogee rosetta 800 would be nice but above what you want to spend... the rme are very much worth taking a look at...
 
I
I just purchased several high end preamps and I can't utilize them with my firepod correctly because it only has 2 preamp inputs...

That's not correct. Your preamps output a line level audio signal. The FIREPOD has eight line level TRS inputs. You don't need any sort of additional converters for what you are doing.

Look carefully at the front panel. You will notice that each of the eight front panel XLR jacks has a hole in the center. That hole is a 1/4" jack. (It's a Neutrik combo XLR connector, more precisely.)

The first two jacks use that front panel 1/4" jack for instrument pres. You might hook up an electric guitar or electric bass pickup to those, for example, or you might connect a high impedance microphone. Because those two 1/4" connectors are "special", the manufacturer had to move the balanced line level inputs for channels 1 & 2 to the back. The other six inputs (channels 3-8), however, use the 1/4" part of the front panel jack as a balanced line level audio input.

Thus, to hook up your external preamps instead of using the built-in pres, you would hook up the first two preamp outputs to the two TRS returns on the back of the unit and the remaining preamp outputs to the 1/4" receptacles for channels 3-8 on the front panel.

And just to get the obligatory follow-up answers out of the way:

  • Yes, it's confusing the way they built the thing.
  • No, I don't know what kind of crack they were smoking.

:D
 
i think dgat's right.

matter of fact, if the firewire is like my emu, the line levels were huge improvement as far as idle noise level. the emu had sshshshshshshshshss
the line level didn't at all.

my outboard pre totally smoked the emu pre's too (both made by Joe Meek/Toft btw).

try them LI inputs before tossing it....
 
That's not correct. Your preamps output a line level audio signal. The FIREPOD has eight line level TRS inputs. You don't need any sort of additional converters for what you are doing.

Look carefully at the front panel. You will notice that each of the eight front panel XLR jacks has a hole in the center. That hole is a 1/4" jack. (It's a Neutrik combo XLR connector, more precisely.)

The first two jacks use that front panel 1/4" jack for instrument pres. You might hook up an electric guitar or electric bass pickup to those, for example, or you might connect a high impedance microphone. Because those two 1/4" connectors are "special", the manufacturer had to move the balanced line level inputs for channels 1 & 2 to the back. The other six inputs (channels 3-8), however, use the 1/4" part of the front panel jack as a balanced line level audio input.

Thus, to hook up your external preamps instead of using the built-in pres, you would hook up the first two preamp outputs to the two TRS returns on the back of the unit and the remaining preamp outputs to the 1/4" receptacles for channels 3-8 on the front panel.

And just to get the obligatory follow-up answers out of the way:

  • Yes, it's confusing the way they built the thing.
  • No, I don't know what kind of crack they were smoking.

:D

Preamp out jack is just line level? Wow I feel kinda dumb... But running the signal back into the front pannel of the firepod is essentially utilizing the pres on it, is it not?
 
Preamp out jack is just line level? Wow I feel kinda dumb... But running the signal back into the front pannel of the firepod is essentially utilizing the pres on it, is it not?
You are completely confused.

The preamps he was talking about were the outboard preamps that you wanted to use.

If you want to use the two preamps on the firepod, plug the mics into the front of the firepod. If you have outboard preamps that you want to use, plug them into the 1/4 line level inputs on the firepod. That's it, that's all there is to it.

You don't need wordclock unless you are trying to hook two digital devices together, which you aren't.

The signal gets into the computer through the firewire. You have all the converters you need, you don't have to get anything else. You might want to read the manual...
 
hmmmm

Well,
Not sure if the guy with the A/D/A concerns is worried about keeping the signal digital all the way to the monitors, but....If so Lexicon used to make a fan-fricken-tastic MPX-500 outboard rack effects processor that will work as a stand-alone A/D or D/A processor, even in bypass mode (24-bit). While not directly related to his issue, it could come in helpful for your setup, especially since you would be getting a great effects unit, and an excellent A/D / D/A converter.
 
Wow I'm really bad at this whole trying to explain myself thing.

Thanks for clearing up the line level thing that you guys were talking about. I was currently running from an external preamp into the firepod by the way you guys were suggesting. I just thought that maybe there was a better way of doing it.

I wanted advice on how to "upgrade" my firepod to a much better sounding unit, by purchasing everything seperately instead of getting an all in one unit (buy the preamps, then an a/d/a converter, possibly a clock, etc. I guess from what everyone is saying, that I should look into just getting a better "all in one" unit such as this multiface II unit from RME. I was told by a friend that went to recording school to check out the fireface 800. Has anyone tried either of these two or have any suggestions which route I should take?
 
Except for the two mic preamps in the firepod, you just have a set of converters. AD/DA converters have line level inputs and interface with the computer.

Wordclock is only needed if you have several digital devices that need to be in sync. In your scenario, you would only have the converters and nothing else to sync to.

You already have decent converters. An obvious step up will cost thousands for 8 channels.
 
Except for the two mic preamps in the firepod, you just have a set of converters. AD/DA converters have line level inputs and interface with the computer.

There are eight preamps in the FIREPOD, but otherwise yeah.
 
Back
Top