Universal Audio 2-610

J

Jack Hammer

New member
For top quality vocals, some have strongly recommended an Avalon 737 (I believe that is the correct model number). It is one channel but has EQ and compression. I am sure that something that costs that much will sound great. Unfortunately, it is one channel so I cannot use it for stereo keyboards, my main instrument. Vocals is for recording others and despite it being a very important part of a serious recording system, I will get more milage personally out of a stereo pre than a mono simply by using it to enhance keyboard sounds, drum sounds, frankly, anything that I record in stereo which, again, mostly features my main instrument. So, I got my eye on this Universal Audio 2-610 and wonder this. The UA pre is an older design albeti state-of-the art to some degree in its day. Has pre amp technology advanced to the point that it is better to invest in newer state-of-the-art technology rather than older state-of-the-art technology. Just wondering how that works notwithstanding all the hype about "vintage" gear which, I imagine, is meritorious in some cases and simply hype in others. What is your opinion on the issue of old state-of-the art vs. new state-of-the-art in preamps and particularly tube pre amps.
 
Why do you need a fancy preamp for keyboards? Just plug the outputs of your keyboard into a couple of DI boxes. You want to get fancy, get a pair of Avalon U5's for way less than the price of an Avalon 737.

This is all assuming that when you say keyboards you're not talking about a Steinway...
 
Clarification

The fancy preamp is for vocals. The point was that in addition, I thought I could use it to enhance some of the other instruments, particularly keyboards. So I figured a stereo pre-amp would be a good idea. Ultimately, the real purpose for having this is vocals but while I am at it, why not use it for everything or anything that could benefit from such a signal chain.

That being said, the core question again is this...Is new state-of-the-art pre amp technology an improvement over old state-of-the-art a technology?

One of the problems with such equipment, I find, is that it is awfully difficult to tell what one likes without an opportunity to use it for a period of time in vaerious situations and most importantly, in the context or your own, familiar studio. That is why the opinions of others can at times be helpful. You see?
 
Re: Clarification

Jack Hammer said:
The fancy preamp is for vocals. The point was that in addition, I thought I could use it to enhance some of the other instruments, particularly keyboards.

Just wondering how that works notwithstanding all the hype about "vintage" gear which, I imagine, is meritorious in some cases and simply hype in others. What is your opinion on the issue of old state-of-the art vs. new state-of-the-art in preamps and particularly tube pre amps.
Click to expand...

Jack, yes this is a dilemma and there are a lot of ways to go. Basically there are two classes of mic pres that you have to decide on. The colored and uncolored.

Many uncolored mic pres are transformerless and are basically pure gain, transparent, no character of their. The other is transformer colored type that is designed to give clean gain but with a slight amount of character.

So this is not really an issue of "old state-of-the art vs. new state-of-the-art" but more of your application. For most vocals I prefer a mic pre with a little color. Some call this warmth but how ever you want to describe it when using crisp condensor mics and so-so digital converters, a nice mic pre can make all the difference.

If you want a world class mic pre that offers lots of choices I would strongly suggest you talk a look at the Great River MP-2NV. This will give you two channels of incredible sound that also has DI/instrument inputs.

One of the nice things about the MP-2NV is you can run it clean and transparent or by adjusting the gain you can get some great transformer saturation. This is really nice if you do a wide range of music styles.

The guys I know with much better ears than me put this baby in their top 3 of home run mic pres. Not to discount the Avalon decisions other have made but if I could only use one mic pre, for sound and flexabilty this would be it in my opinion.

Just another fader jockys .02 :)

http://www.20db.com/greatriver.html
 
:rolleyes:
hmmmmm..............

Good thing I am not a member of the board's special police department. Hope 20dB continues to offer helpful advice not related to his site just to prove my suspicions wrong.;)

(at least I'm polite)

heylow
 
Ummmmmmm

Heylow, thanks for the heads up. Of course, bias does not necessarily mean wrong or bad, its just an important factor to consider.
 
I'm just being sarastic.....sort of. I really do like to be wrong sometimes...hence the politeness.

Very good point on bias...I whole-heartedly agree!


heylow
 
heylow said:
:Hope 20dB continues to offer helpful advice not related to his site just to prove my suspicions wrong.;)
Click to expand...

I give opinions on things I have first hand knowledge about and my recommendation were based on Jacks requirements. Nothing more nothing less.

He asked about a two channel mic pre with DI inputs. He asked about the truth of vintage gear vs "state of the art" newbie gear. The Great River is a world class mic pre that I will put up against any thing else in this same range.

After leaving my post I noticed that some one else recommended the exact same mic pre to Jack in another thread where he asked the same basic question.

heylow, not sure why you have a problem with my post. Is my information inaccurate ? Do you disagree with the MP-2NV as the right solution for Jack ?

I don't want to over react but this bias stuff is absurd. Everyone has a bias, and for different reasons. I see guys who defend protools like its a religon, why because they don't want anyone to tell them they made the wrong decision. Thats a bias.

Jackhammer, if you are like me you have a limited budget for your studio and you want to make sure every dollar is spent in the right way. I want gear in my studio that will make a meanful difference in the music and the quality of my recordings.

I stand by my recommendation based on the information you outlined as your criteria. But don't take my word for it. Get off the HOMErecording forums and go to a PROrecording forum and ask about the MP-2NV. You will get the exact same information from anyone who has one in their studio.
 
Last edited:
20,

I have no issue with you or your recommendation. Dan's stuff, right? Wish I had one!!

That said, you might be able see where one could raise eyebrows at a member's first post being complete with a link to a place where one can purchase their recommendation and the link is a store by the same name as the poster.

Look, I was polite. And, genuinely, I hope your intentions are straight up. If you think I'm forward, you may want to seriously avoid some other members of this forum.

This will be the last I address the issue. I agree this stuff can be absurd. I'm just saying "be careful, be tactful."


heylow
 
heylow, good points and well said.

yes you were polite and I shouldn't be so sensitive. If I was honest I would have to admit that I am annoyed with Dragon and the forum in general.

I think it is disgraceful how Allan Hyatt was treated over in the Mic forum, but we wont rehash that topic. :)

I guess my attitude is the people who work in our industry are talented, passionate and have years of experience, I dont get why people are so hostile to them.

My guess is if Rupert showed up talking about his consoles some bozo would accuse him of being self serving and a self promoter. :D

heylow thanks and hopefully my comments and advice will stand on their own merit.

20
 
to set the record straight

Bias is a fact of life and never means automatic invalidity. OF COURSE we expect that if you ae involved in the design, manufacture or sale of a particular device that you will recommend that device. Frankly, if you do not believe in the thing you have had a hand in creating or distributing, then nobody will or rightfully should. There is, in my opinion, nothing wrong with representing your creations and/or product line if done in context and WITH FULL DISCLSURE. As long as one says, and by the way 20db, this is the only place you went wrong, but anyway...If one starts by saying something like "I have been associated with XYZ products as a ____________ for X months/years/decades and I am therefore intimately familiar with the piece. You can then freely go ahead and state why you believe your device is better than those from another company and nobody can fault you or claim you are trying to use undue influence. At that point, you have shifted the burden to determine that amount of bias and its effect onto the recipient and if that person is not swift enought to discern the useful facts, then so be it.

So, 20db, for further posts, all that is needed is full disclosure and you can never be accused of subterfuge, underhandedness, undue influence and unfair bias. Bias is okay, its part of life. Unfair, undisclosed bias can be a bit underhanded and sleazy. That, by the way, is why full disclosure on politicians is so very important and why freedom of speech and press is one of the foundations of this country but that is another story for another day.
 
to set the record straight

Bias is a fact of life and never means automatic invalidity. OF COURSE we expect that if you ae involved in the design, manufacture or sale of a particular device that you will recommend that device. Frankly, if you do not believe in the thing you have had a hand in creating or distributing, then nobody will or rightfully should. There is, in my opinion, nothing wrong with representing your creations and/or product line if done in context and WITH FULL DISCLSURE. As long as one says, and by the way 20db, this is the only place you went wrong, but anyway...If one starts by saying something like "I have been associated with XYZ products as a ____________ for X months/years/decades and I am therefore intimately familiar with the piece. You can then freely go ahead and state why you believe your device is better than those from another company and nobody can fault you or claim you are trying to use undue influence. At that point, you have shifted the burden to determine that amount of bias and its effect onto the recipient and if that person is not swift enought to discern the useful facts, then so be it.

So, 20db, for further posts, all that is needed is full disclosure and you can never be accused of subterfuge, underhandedness, undue influence and unfair bias. Bias is okay, its part of life. Unfair, undisclosed bias can be a bit underhanded and sleazy. That, by the way, is why full disclosure on politicians is so very important and why freedom of speech and press is one of the foundations of this country but that is another story for another day.
 
to set the record straight

Bias is a fact of life and never means automatic invalidity. OF COURSE we expect that if you ae involved in the design, manufacture or sale of a particular device that you will recommend that device. Frankly, if you do not believe in the thing you have had a hand in creating or distributing, then nobody will or rightfully should. There is, in my opinion, nothing wrong with representing your creations and/or product line if done in context and WITH FULL DISCLSURE. As long as one says, and by the way 20db, this is the only place you went wrong, but anyway...If one starts by saying something like "I have been associated with XYZ products as a ____________ for X months/years/decades and I am therefore intimately familiar with the piece. You can then freely go ahead and state why you believe your device is better than those from another company and nobody can fault you or claim you are trying to use undue influence. At that point, you have shifted the burden to determine that amount of bias and its effect onto the recipient and if that person is not swift enought to discern the useful facts, then so be it.

So, 20db, for further posts, all that is needed is full disclosure and you can never be accused of subterfuge, underhandedness, undue influence and unfair bias. Bias is okay, its part of life. Unfair, undisclosed bias can be a bit underhanded and sleazy. That, by the way, is why full disclosure on politicians is so very important and why freedom of speech and press is one of the foundations of this country but that is another story for another day.
 
to set the record straight

Bias is a fact of life and never means automatic invalidity. OF COURSE we expect that if you ae involved in the design, manufacture or sale of a particular device that you will recommend that device. Frankly, if you do not believe in the thing you have had a hand in creating or distributing, then nobody will or rightfully should. There is, in my opinion, nothing wrong with representing your creations and/or product line if done in context and WITH FULL DISCLSURE. As long as one says, and by the way 20db, this is the only place you went wrong, but anyway...If one starts by saying something like "I have been associated with XYZ products as a ____________ for X months/years/decades and I am therefore intimately familiar with the piece. You can then freely go ahead and state why you believe your device is better than those from another company and nobody can fault you or claim you are trying to use undue influence. At that point, you have shifted the burden to determine that amount of bias and its effect onto the recipient and if that person is not swift enought to discern the useful facts, then so be it.

So, 20db, for further posts, all that is needed is full disclosure and you can never be accused of subterfuge, underhandedness, undue influence and unfair bias. Bias is okay, its part of life. Unfair, undisclosed bias can be a bit underhanded and sleazy. That, by the way, is why full disclosure on politicians is so very important and why freedom of speech and press is one of the foundations of this country but that is another story for another day.
 
Jack you might want to work on that stuttering problem :) Boy you really know how to make a point, 3 post. hehehe

Here is another perspective...

Some one might be involved (in this case resell) a product because they used it and fell in love with it. Because they used it in their own studio and found it to be a wonder solution to a problem. And because they are passionate about the product, the company and the people behind the company.

A lot of people repect Fletcher's opinon yet he makes a living selling a lot of gear. Does that make his opinion any less valuable or biased ?

I believe I was completely upfront and not sure why I had to have a disclaimer on every post I make. By giving my url as a reference it was pretty obvious this was my site. I figured most people could evaluate my recommendation on its own merits.

I recommended the MP-2NV for two reasons.

- It fits your specfications to a T
- Because it is one of the finest pieces of gear on the market and I know you would not be disappointed

Jack, this thread has already taken up more disk space then its worth so I don't mean to drag it out any further. You don't know me but you will find my recommendations are based purely on my experience and on the guidelines stated by the person asking the question. My credibility is worth a whole lot more to me than any piece of stupid electronics. :D

Good luck with your search and I hope you find some thing you live with an use for a long time.
 
also, the mp-2nv is based on the original neve 1073 design, but with some "updated" electronics, so it's really the best of both worlds (vintage and modern). in the interest of helping a fellow recordist, i will say that there is a place that offers this thing for several hundred dollars cheaper than this 20db place.....here's a hint, said place's name is actually on the mp-2nv....
 
dragnalus you are absolutely correct (not that you needed me to point that out) and this is exactly why I recommended it.

Jacks original post sounded like he wanted that to know about the vintage sound and the MP-2nv is perfect because is offers a little of both.

jackhammer: Has pre amp technology advanced to the point that it is better to invest in newer state-of-the-art technology rather than older state-of-the-art technology. Just wondering how that works notwithstanding all the hype about "vintage" gear which, I imagine, is meritorious in some cases and simply hype in others.
Click to expand...

And the name you are searching for is mercenary.com :) and by all means, call Fletcher and get his opinion. I totally comfortable that he will validate my recommendation. Especially since he had input in Dan's design.

dragnalus, this is not the place to talk about prices but I hope you dont think the web site represents what we sell them for.
 
Ua 610

So after reading all the replies no one ever commented on the UA 610.
At least I didnt see any.
I recently purchased an M610, the basic pre no compressor.
I have been using Presonus MP 20's with Jensen Transformers and Burr Brown Op amps. They sound pretty darn good. All around nice pre.

The UA 610:
WOW! this thing really has some character. I have tried it with AT 4033's and an SM 57. For rock vocals I'd say this thing is the bomb. For ultra clean stuff you might be better off with something like the MP 2NV. My MP 20's are cleaner than the UA. But again it's all in what your going for.
I have not completely figured this pre out yet but Im working on it, the cool thing is that you do have alot of character there to work with whereas the MP 20's are pretty much one sound minus the goofy IDSS control.


Hope that helps you make an educated purchase.
Best of luck,
Makes
 
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