Small upgrade to mic pre

undrgrnd studio

undrgrnd studio

New member
I currently use the mic pre in my Boss BR-1180CD DAW. I also own a Mackie DFX 12 that has i think 6 mic pre's. None of them seem to be very good in regards to headroom on the vocals. I noticed that when I use my SM58 and no pre the mic actually sounds a little better than when i use my M Audio Nova condensor mic with either of my mic pre choices. So I assume it must be the mic pre. Well, in addition to the Nova not being more than a starter mic anyhow.

I was thinking of getting a Symetrix 302 dual mic pre, Symetrix 528 (extra features), or a DMP3. Those are all in my price range. Would these be a step up from the mic pres I have now? Is the Symetrix gear enough of a step up to make any difference at all?

Next thing I'm getting is a compressor. I was wondering where to start here. Symetrix has so many different compressors available. I will be using this mostly for vocals, but if one of them can be used with good results for Bass that would be a major plus. All my bass tracks come out muddy, mid rangish, or both.

There is the
501
525
522
528
Heck there are probably a dozen more.

I am on a strict budget diet, but I just can't stand to waste time on subpar vocals any longer. Yes I'll be getting a better mic when I get some money flowing. First I need a pre, and then a compressor though.
 
The Joemeek ThreeQ might suit you. It reportedly has a decent preamp, useable eq, and a Meek compressor. $199.
 
hmmm?

tdukex said:
The Joemeek ThreeQ might suit you. It reportedly has a decent preamp, useable eq, and a Meek compressor. $199.
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I never really heard anythingt good about Joe Meek equipment. I'l look into it though.
 
M-Audio DMP3 and Studio Projects VTB-1. DMP3 is around 150 bucks vs 100 for the VTB, but it has two channels.
 
Read some reviews on this unit

I get the feeling this is a little too cheaply made. Reviews were mostly about noisy tinny preamps and cheap overall feel about the unit. So far I'm leaning towards the symetrix stuff. It's good equipment, just used. I'm sure it'll be a crap shoot, but I know the quality is rated high so odds are good I'll get something decent. Plus it's realitvely inexpensive.

tdukex said:
The Joemeek ThreeQ might suit you. It reportedly has a decent preamp, useable eq, and a Meek compressor. $199.
Click to expand...
 
Don't be fooled, the meek is a decent unit. It will not blow your mind but by no means will you find nastiness like hiss or hum or noise or extreme mud or razorsharp treble or anything like that. It's better than cheap tube stuff that has given a bad name to cheap gear (like the behringer products, presonus tubepre, sm pro audio stuff etc.).

I agree that the Symetrix stuff is probably gonna suit you better though.
 
Try this combination

Just a suggestion if budget is kicking you in the pants. Try a DMP3 at first which will be a pretty nice "first" upgrade for two channels of the Mackie mixer, and then with the next $200 you have, spring for a FMR RNC compresser. The DMP3 is clean and quiet - and mine is pretty rugged. The RNC is pretty uniformly admired and happens to be inexpensive. With those two boxes, you can get more mileage out of your mixer and when you do upgrade the mixer to something else, the units will still be useful. For instance, the DMP3 makes a great direct box and can help out a tinny acoustic guitar pickup and so forth. The RNC is always going to find a use in your toolkit, regardless of what other gear you end up with simply because it is a great, quiet compresser.
 
I initially wanted the DMP3 and the RNC after researching

edit: addition: I just read treeline's post. So you believe I should just get the pre for now and when I get some extra cash I should get the RNC. OK you're tipping towards that direction, but I'll let my post stand for others opinions.

But as I said before I am on a tight budget. If I can get a similar bang for my buck with some syetrix stuff then that's what I will do. However, I really don't have experience with any of the products we are talking about. I always here great things about the DMP3 and the RNC, but those two units will easily cost me $400+. Whereas I can two symetrix units for around $200+. So I guess the last thing I will ask is this.

Being that I need to upgrade my equipment because I am very unhappy with my vocals and bass chain. BUT am on a tight budget. Would I be that much better off with the DMP3 and the RNC even if they hurt my finances, or will the symetrix gear clean up my sound enough to make me happy with my purchase for a good amount of time?

I know these questions are very very subjective, and I do apologize for being the 100,000th person to ask them, but I have been pondering this for a while and I really don't know the quality vs cost differences between the two options.

I would hate to just get the DMP3 now and then have to wait another month or so to get the RNC. But I will if this is that much of an improvement over my current gear or the symetrix gear.

I would also hate to get some symetrix gear and find that they are barely an improvement on the Mackie and Boss stuff I have now.


Arggghhh!!!!!!!!!
 
undrgrnd studio said:
I always here great things about the DMP3 and the RNC, but those two units will easily cost me $400+. Whereas I can two symetrix units for around $200+.
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Where are you located? $400 is pretty steep for those units. The DMP3 is $159 US and the RNC is $175 US, new. I bought my DMP3 used on e-bay for $90 US and my RNC used on e-bay for $125 US (both within the past year).
 
Either choice should do just fine.

Both the Symetrix stuff and the dmp3 are good-sounding and inexpensive pieces of gear. A Symetrix 528 would come with a compressor built in to the channel strip, which would be a bonus. But I'd just get whicever one I could get the best deal on, because either option would work.
.
 
Oh OK

scrubs said:
Where are you located? $400 is pretty steep for those units. The DMP3 is $159 US and the RNC is $175 US, new. I bought my DMP3 used on e-bay for $90 US and my RNC used on e-bay for $125 US (both within the past year).
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I though they were pricier than that. I though they were $199 each plus tax.

No matter, I just tracked down a used symetrix 525 compressor at guiytar center. He wanted $100, but I got him down to $70. I'll pick that up and then see what I can do about getting a dmp3 next.
 
undrgrnd studio said:
I never really heard anythingt good about Joe Meek equipment. I'l look into it though.
Click to expand...

You haven't? Spend some time and do some research. I used to own a Meek VC1Q (sold it to finance my Sebatron), and the Meek was a great vox box for the price ($500 six years ago). In fact, people are still buying these off ebay for >$400. That should tell you something. The VC6Q is another highly regarded Meek (for the money). Richie (a very experienced recordist and very respected on this forum) has a TwinQ that he thinks very highly of. And he has some high-end gear to compare it to. If you do a search on this forum for the ThreeQ I think you will find many positive comments.

And let's not forget we are talking about $100-$200 preamps here. Art, Behringer, Mackie, Meek, SP, Presounus are all cheaply made and get mixed reviews.

Regarding the DMP3, it is a very nice budget preamp. I use one for acoustic guit, where it excells. I does a decent job on vocals, but I don't use it for that because I have a better preamp for that app. It would still be a good overall preamp choice, though.

I don't know much about the Symetrix stuff but have generally heard good things about it.

But if you are considering both a DMP3 and RNC ($325-$350) you should also consider a GT Brick, an Aphex 207D, an ART Pro Channel, an M-Audio Tampa and some other gear in that price range.

I also agree with Chessrock, any of these choices will do just fine, and often the best piece of (comparable) gear is the one you get the best deal on.
 
Bought the symetrix 525 compressor

And it is already an improvement. I hav eto run it through my mackie, but even so... it is a much more present and full sound. With a decent preamp I feel like I will have a respectable bass and vocal chain. I really like this 525. It seriously is a great piece of equipment.
 
Late to the party. I have a lot of Symetrix stuff and it is all good - especially for the money -- but good irrespective of cost. The 525 should be fine as a compressor for you - especially for bass. I have a 501 as well as an SX206 and SX208 and they are all usefull. Not quite as smooth as the RNP for vocals (I have a couple of those also), but we are not talking about huge differences here or using a compressor for its color (like an LA2A). The RNP is a stereo unit - but not a dual mono -- if it matters to you. I use my 501 primarily for bass and use my RNPs for vocals or guitars.

The SX202 (or the current 302 model) is a nice durable clean preamp. I have 2 of them. Although I have more expensive pres (Millennia, Pendulum), they still get used from time to time and I have a friend using one of mine right now for background vocals for her album). If you can get an SX202 at a good price (they sometimes go for $100 on e-bay - although $140 is more typical), I'd get that in preference to the 302 - particularly if you want to mod it. There are mod instructions on RAP if you do a google search. I can't compare the Symetrix with the Boss or the Mackie as I used neither, but I think you would be happy with it if you are looking for a clean pre. Where are you? If you are in the Twin Cities, I'll lend you one if you want to try it out.
 
Im in CT

pohaku said:
Late to the party. I have a lot of Symetrix stuff and it is all good - especially for the money -- but good irrespective of cost. The 525 should be fine as a compressor for you - especially for bass. I have a 501 as well as an SX206 and SX208 and they are all usefull. Not quite as smooth as the RNP for vocals (I have a couple of those also), but we are not talking about huge differences here or using a compressor for its color (like an LA2A). The RNP is a stereo unit - but not a dual mono -- if it matters to you. I use my 501 primarily for bass and use my RNPs for vocals or guitars.

The SX202 (or the current 302 model) is a nice durable clean preamp. I have 2 of them. Although I have more expensive pres (Millennia, Pendulum), they still get used from time to time and I have a friend using one of mine right now for background vocals for her album). If you can get an SX202 at a good price (they sometimes go for $100 on e-bay - although $140 is more typical), I'd get that in preference to the 302 - particularly if you want to mod it. There are mod instructions on RAP if you do a google search. I can't compare the Symetrix with the Boss or the Mackie as I used neither, but I think you would be happy with it if you are looking for a clean pre. Where are you? If you are in the Twin Cities, I'll lend you one if you want to try it out.
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Thanks for the offer though. I would certainly take you up on it if I was near you. I am in the process of buying a dmp3 off of someone one here, so I'll have that to use for now, and eventually I will pick up some other gear for more "sound options". I love my 525, I only tried it once but I noticed an immediate presence in my vocals that were absent before. With the Boss preamp I always had a weak sound, distant almost. The Mackie put out too much white noise, but now going from the mackie into the Symetrix 525 I can get a much better sound than I can with any other combination that I currently own. When I get the dmp3, I am betting that I'll have a respectable vocal chain, and hopefully a respectable bass chain as well.

I'll keep my eyes open for used symetrix stuff at the local stores and on ebay. When ever I see a deal I'll scrape up the cash and get it. I am convinced of their quality now, and the price, you just can't beat.

BTW, what do you typically set your symetrix compressor settings at when recording vocals. The 525 has a gate, which is easy enough to use, but the compression, expansion, and limiting are a little more tricky for me to just set by ear. I'm new to outboard compression, I usually just use a digital vocal compression preset on my BR1180.
 
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Why won't you replace the microphone?

My guess is that the microphone is your problem.
If the $100 SM-58 sounds good and the $100 Nova sounds bad, what more need you say?
For what it's worth, the $99 Studio Projects VTB1 pre-amp is one of Sweetwater's best selling pre's. Why is that? It has clean, it has variable tube, and it also has some level of plate voltage (I have read?).
I think the mic is the thing to change.
My 2 cents.
BG
 
Did you read the rest of the thread?

homestudioguy said:
My guess is that the microphone is your problem.
If the $100 SM-58 sounds good and the $100 Nova sounds bad, what more need you say?
For what it's worth, the $99 Studio Projects VTB1 pre-amp is one of Sweetwater's best selling pre's. Why is that? It has clean, it has variable tube, and it also has some level of plate voltage (I have read?).
I think the mic is the thing to change.
My 2 cents.
BG
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Because I am already seeing an improvement in the quality with the addition of the compressor. Before I was using the br 1180's preset compressor. So once I get a decent albeit budegt mic pre, I think I will really see an improvement. BTW I am going to be buying a another condensor mic soon, I was thinking about getting the SP C1, or the AT 3035.
 
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