Replacing VTB1 Opamp?

I read over at Harmony Central a guy replaced all the 4580 OpAmps with NE5532's? Am curious as to how these would compare to the OPA2134's. Any idea as to how the NE5532's would compare to the 4580's? Do the NE5532's have lower noise and distortion?
Also, what makes the NE5532 a better output driver than the OPA 2134?

Thanks for all the replies. I am finding them extremely helpful and am learning lots!
 
What's the point in replacing one cheap, slow opamp for another cheap, slow opamp? What's the point?

Try putting something nice in there ... like an LT1469. Seriously. Just try it and see if it works out.

Put it in there, let it run, and touch with your finger after about 10 minutes. If it doesn't feel hot, and the audio sounds good, then it's not oscillating. If for some odd reason, you have problems, then try something like an OP275 ... but I would look at a 5532 as more of a "last resort" kind of scenario.

Trust me on this one. I get a feeling you'll be much happier.

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Yeah, I'd like to get hold of some of those but they are quite difficult to find, the 5532 is kind of ubiquitous and if it sounds no good then it’s a case of nothing ventured nothing gained. (In fact, Dickiefunk, if you PM your address I'll send you a few NE5532's to try out, I have plenty lying around not doing anything).

I'm pretty surprised about your opinion on the 5532 Chess (which is a "fast" amp btw). What gear did you try which used it?

Funnily enough there was a forum in which the Benchmark DAC1 (which uses 5532s in the analog stage) was discussed and the designer jumped on board to defend opamp choice because someone (despite loving the sound of it) suggested putting ‘better’ opamps in it. They’d (Benchmark) tried OPA2134s (amongst many others) and they didn’t sound nearly as good as the 5532s in that design (lots of distortion). Obviously that’s handling line level signal so a different app but you get the point, I don’t think the NE5532 is universally bad (although I’ve no doubt it’s been badly utilised).

It’s a shame you’re in the US, I’d send you my green pre to check out (assuming you’d let NE5532s through the door :D).
 
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Some good stuff on the 5532 and lots of other IC opamps here:

http://www.prodigy-pro.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13594

I guess it depends on how willing you are to believe what you read on the internet but it seems that different brands of the same amp can sound pretty different. That’s kind of the point at which I think I need to concentrate on writing decent songs in the first place before I get too worried about whether the 5532s in my mic pre have “NE” or “JRC” on them. :D
 
Kevin DeSchwazi said:
I'm pretty surprised about your opinion on the 5532 Chess (which is a "fast" amp btw). What gear did you try which used it?
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5532 = 9 V/us
LT1469 = 22 v/us
OP275 = 22v/us

I realize that very good gear has been made with 5532's and TL072's and everything else under the sun.

My experience has just been pretty much universal that, while I don't find them to sound particularly bad, in most situations, the audio quality doesn't suffer when the 5532 is replaced with something else ... and at least 1/2 the time if not more, the audio quality is noticeably improved, particularly at very high gains.

Some gear where I've messed around with this stuff ... with a Symetrix 528 and a Rane MS-1, and a Sytek.

I tried some 5532's in the output stage of the 528, and what I heard out of it, at very high gains, was nothing short of horrendous and ugly. Granted, at more modest gains, it wasn't bad, but it noticeably lacked some subtle detail that the LT1469 clearly had.

The Rane unit sounded perfectly acceptable at all gain levels, regardless of what was used, but again, I just heard a very subtle increase in detail with the LT-1469, and an even more noticeable increase with an LM6172 which I happened to pop in there for the hell of it. The 6172 is generally way too fast to be used as a drop-in in ... :D but in that particular instance, I happed to get lucky and it didn't freak out. Go figure.

With the Sytek, I didn't see any improvement at all. In fact, I probably prefer the 5532 in there, if anything.

To sum it all up, my experiences with swapping opamps was noticeable in the Symetrix ... less noticeable but still there (particularly with an LM6172 - a very expensive little bugger, by the way, and probably not suitable as a "drop in" in a lot of circuits) with the Rane ... and not noticeable at all / possibly detrimental in the Sytek.

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chessrock said:
5532 = 9 V/us
LT1469 = 22 v/us
OP275 = 22v/us
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Of course there are faster but the 5532 is still a “fast” opamp (considering there are audio opamps with a slew rate <1 V/us).

Not that slew rate is the be all and end all anyway.

chessrock said:
I realize that very good gear has been made with 5532's and TL072's and everything else under the sun.

My experience has just been pretty much universal that, while I don't find them to sound particularly bad, in most situations, the audio quality doesn't suffer when the 5532 is replaced with something else ... and at least 1/2 the time if not more, the audio quality is noticeably improved, particularly at very high gains.

Some gear where I've messed around with this stuff ... with a Symetrix 528 and a Rane MS-1, and a Sytek.

I tried some 5532's in the output stage of the 528, and what I heard out of it, at very high gains, was nothing short of horrendous and ugly. Granted, at more modest gains, it wasn't bad, but it noticeably lacked some subtle detail that the LT1469 clearly had.

The Rane unit sounded perfectly acceptable at all gain levels, regardless of what was used, but again, I just heard a very subtle increase in detail with the LT-1469, and an even more noticeable increase with an LM6172 which I happened to pop in there for the hell of it. The 6172 is generally way too fast to be used as a drop-in in ... :D but in that particular instance, I happed to get lucky and it didn't freak out. Go figure.

With the Sytek, I didn't see any improvement at all. In fact, I probably prefer the 5532 in there, if anything.

To sum it all up, my experiences with swapping opamps was noticeable in the Symetrix ... less noticeable but still there (particularly with an LM6172 - a very expensive little bugger, by the way, and probably not suitable as a "drop in" in a lot of circuits) with the Rane ... and not noticeable at all / possibly detrimental in the Sytek.

.
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Interesting observations, cheers.
 
Thanks again for all the info. I'll suggest these to my techie mate. Whilst not being the most important thing about recording songs I'm finding it extremely interesting stuff and am learing a lot. I've already got my DMP3 which whilst not being the best pre on the planet by far is actually a very decent piece of kit. I won't be modding this one but will use it as a reference point of the mods I do to my VTB1.
 
Hmmm. I just had another email from a different guy at Studio Projects recommending that I don't change any of the OpAmps because of loss in quality and gain?
 
dickiefunk said:
I've already got my DMP3 which whilst not being the best pre on the planet by far is actually a very decent piece of kit. I won't be modding this one but will use it as a reference point of the mods I do to my VTB1.
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Interesting point we've come to ...

... People modding their VTB1's in an attempt to reach the quality of their DMP3's.

:D
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I didn't mean I wanted to make the VTB1 as good as my DMP3. I want to see what difference other OpAmps will make to my VTB1's performance and to learn a little bit about modding. If much better quality OpAmps at the input and output stages make a huge difference then it may be possible for the VTB1 to be quite a bit better than the VTB1?
That's my point - I don't know and would like to find out
 
dickiefunk said:
Yeah that's what I thought? Surely if you take one OpAmp and replace it with a much better one then there will be an improvement?
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Well, maybe, but I was referring more to the comment about gain. Gain wouldn't change unless the new opamp had less open loop gain than required by the circuit, which for a mic preamp, is rather silly.
 
I think the bigger issue here -- and this really is the bigger issue ...

What you're dealing with is, sadly, a piece of audio gear that was originally designed and manufactured with the sole purpose of cutting every possible corner in the aim of saving a buck here and a nickel there.

Which is evidenced by their component choices -- i.e. the use of opamps that cost less than a piece of bubble gum, and are slower than a fucking turtle.

It's like you open up the hood and immediately start thinking of ways to modify it to the level of Behringer gear. :D You know it's bad when 5532's are viewed as "boutique" component upgrades. I honestly think Behringer may have new competition for the lowest denominator in cheap gear.

.
 
chessrock said:
I think the bigger issue here -- and this really is the bigger issue ...

What you're dealing with is, sadly, a piece of audio gear that was originally designed and manufactured with the sole purpose of cutting every possible corner in the aim of saving a buck here and a nickel there.

Which is evidenced by their component choices -- i.e. the use of opamps that cost less than a piece of bubble gum, and are slower than a fucking turtle.

It's like you open up the hood and immediately start thinking of ways to modify it to the level of Behringer gear. :D You know it's bad when 5532's are viewed as "boutique" component upgrades. I honestly think Behringer may have new competition for the lowest denominator in cheap gear.

.
Click to expand...

C'mon, my A&H board had TL072s as input stages and 5532s for the summing amps :p
 
Isn't it more fun to just record than just tinker around with budget gear to make it sound better?

I just put some $$$ down, got some good gear, and have been blasting away at recording. I didn't spend tons...kept it modest. A pre I've been using and have been happy with is my True Systems P-Solo. Sold my VTB-1's off and won't look back.

OK, modding might be fun - I've thought about doing some, but man, just get to recording...would you. :)
 
warble2 said:
I just put some $$$ down, got some good gear, and have been blasting away at recording. I didn't spend tons...kept it modest. A pre I've been using and have been happy with is my True Systems P-Solo. Sold my VTB-1's off and won't look back.
Click to expand...

Is there really that huge of a difference between buying new stuff ... and modifying / improving something you already have? Same idea -- you're just trying to make little improvements in sound quality.

Why did you sell your old stuff and buy new stuff, as you say? Why didn't you just "get recording" instead of getting your gear slut on ? :D

.
 
chessrock said:
What's the point in replacing one cheap, slow opamp for another cheap, slow opamp? What's the point?

Try putting something nice in there ... like an LT1469. Seriously. Just try it and see if it works out.
.
Click to expand...

Would you use the LT 1469 or OP 275 in the output stage only or would these be an improvement on the OPA2134 for the input stages aswell?
 
chessrock said:
Is there really that huge of a difference between buying new stuff ... and modifying / improving something you already have? Same idea -- you're just trying to make little improvements in sound quality.

Why did you sell your old stuff and buy new stuff, as you say? Why didn't you just "get recording" instead of getting your gear slut on ? :D

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Click to expand...

The difference is time. I guess if you have a lot to burn constantly modding stuff instead of actually recording, it's cool! :D

I sold my old stuff and did "get recording". :cool:


Just for the record, I'm not against modding. I think guys like the guy at Black Lion Audio are doing some good stuff - taking stuff that might not be too bad, and making it into something you'd use on a regular basis. I guess modding can be as addictive as just buying good gear :eek:
 
Well, it's not like building a house.

You spend (hopefully) a few hours on it, you're done and you move on.

Generally speaking. It's talking about it in threads like this one that burn a lot of hours. :D

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