Pro/ affordable mic pre for electric blues guitar?

D

doriangrey

New member
Mic pre for killer blues guitar tracks?

For this project, I am recording 1-2 tracks of lead guitar over a pre-recorded professional backing track. I need a quality but affordable ( hopefully under $700 ) 2 channel mic pre. Hi-Z inputs would be a bonus.

I think I'm on the right track. I'll be using a Royer 121 ( 3 feet away from cab ) and an sm57 up on the speaker in my living room. I'm recording the guitar to 2 tracks. I going for a nice big lead guitar sound.



I'm going for these sounds:

Stevie Ray Vaughn: Riviera Paradise, Lenny, Tin Pan Alley

ZZ Top: Blue Jean Blues

Santana: Bella

Jeff Beck: Cause We've Ended as Lovers

David Gilmour: Shine On You Crazy Diamond, Mother ( lead tones )

Robben Ford and Carlton kind of stuff as well.


I'm strongly considering a FMR RNP. Can any experienced sound engineers guide me in the right direction? Thank you.



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Guitars: Fender 57 clone with Blue Specials, 70's Les Paul, PRS Artist III

Amps: Fender Vibro-King, JTM-45 or a Boogie Mark I.
 
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FMR gets a lot of good reviews. Everyone I know who uses it likes it a lot. For about $800 you can get two Groove Tube Bricks.

The ART MPA Gold gets a lot of mentions, but I dont know anything about it. It reads good as far as specs and features, but there are people on the forums who wont buy them, I'm not sure why.....
 
doriangrey said:
For this project, I am recording 1-2 tracks of lead guitar over a pre-recorded professional backing track. I need a quality but affordable ( hopefully under $700 ) 2 channel mic pre. Hi-Z inputs would be a bonus.

I think I'm on the right track. I'll be using a Royer 121 ( 3 feet away from cab ) and an sm57 up on the speaker in my living room. I'm recording the guitar to 2 tracks. I going for a nice big lead guitar sound.



I'm going for these sounds:

Stevie Ray Vaughn: Riviera Paradise, Lenny, Tin Pan Alley

ZZ Top: Blue Jean Blues

Santana: Bella

Jeff Beck: Cause We've Ended as Lovers

David Gilmour: Shine On You Crazy Diamond, Mother ( lead tones )

Robben Ford and Carlton kind of stuff as well.


I'm strongly considering a FMR RNP. Can any experienced sound engineers guide me in the right direction? Thank you.



----------------------------------------


Guitars: Fender 57 clone with Blue Specials, 70's Les Paul, PRS Artist III

Amps: Fender Vibro-King, JTM-45 or a Boogie Mark I.
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You've described eight different sounds , with those guitars and amps, if you are getting those sounds out of them, all you will need is a clean preamp(RNP, Rane, Grace) and a nice compressor (maybe a really nice compressor, hmmmm?)
 
soundchaser59 said:
FMR gets a lot of good reviews. Everyone I know who uses it likes it a lot. For about $800 you can get two Groove Tube Bricks.

The ART MPA Gold gets a lot of mentions, but I dont know anything about it. It reads good as far as specs and features, but there are people on the forums who wont buy them, I'm not sure why.....
Click to expand...

I have read about the ART MPA and the GT Brick. The RNP seems to have the best reputation amoungst the "affordable" pres.

I guess my 2 main qeustions would be:

1. what mic pres ( my guess would be neve ) did these aforementioned guitarists use to track their solos. Is the RNP going to get me close to this sound that I'm after?

2. I'm only going to be recording 2 tracks of lead guitar. Is the mic pre that important anyways?
 
Big Kenny said:
You've described eight different sounds , with those guitars and amps, if you are getting those sounds out of them, all you will need is a clean preamp(RNP, Rane, Grace) and a nice compressor (maybe a really nice compressor, hmmmm?)
Click to expand...

I'm using the ART PRO VLA. I was actually just reading up on the Demeter Compulator. It supposedly has the traits of the LA2A. I know it's nothing close to the real thing, but maybe it would be a better alternative then the PRO VLA?

If the compressor has a big part in this sound that I'm after, what would you recommend under $1,000? and under $500?
 
The artists you mention all used a lot of different stuff to get their sound, but most of them were probably recorded thru Neve, API, MCI, or SSL board preamps, and were then processed thru 1176 and LA-2 compressors. This is one of the most common signal chains for guitar sounds.
 
Harvey Gerst said:
The artists you mention all used a lot of different stuff to get their sound, but most of them were probably recorded thru Neve, API, MCI, or SSL board preamps, and were then processed thru 1176 and LA-2 compressors. This is one of the most common signal chains for guitar sounds.
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Thanks Harvey :cool: Now the question is, can I get close to that on a budget?

Am I heading in the right direction?

royer 121 ( 3 feet away from cab ), sm75 ( on speaker ) > RNP > Demeter Compulator > DAW
 
I'd get the RNP and an RNC racked... and actually look at the Compulator - it's a guitar pedal. And I know a lot of guys rave about the DAV, but I think it's pretty much impossible to try one out, and I wouldn't go buy a pre without trying it first. Chances are you can go to pretty much anywhere and find someone who deals FMR and will let you try an RNP...

Jacob
 
^^^^^Nope, you cant try one out. Mick doesnt deal with retailers. Of course noone that has bought one has ever done anything less than rave about how great it is.

If you ever want to try mine, you are welcome to. if you harm it, I will burn your house down.

Teddy
 
BigRay said:
^^^^^Nope, you cant try one out. Mick doesnt deal with retailers. Of course noone that has bought one has ever done anything less than rave about how great it is.

If you ever want to try mine, you are welcome to. if you harm it, I will burn your house down.

Teddy
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HAHAHAHHA...you have a fantastic sense of humour ray...

Jacob
 
jkokura said:
I'd get the RNP and an RNC racked... and actually look at the Compulator - it's a guitar pedal. And I know a lot of guys rave about the DAV, but I think it's pretty much impossible to try one out, and I wouldn't go buy a pre without trying it first. Chances are you can go to pretty much anywhere and find someone who deals FMR and will let you try an RNP...

Jacob
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So do people track the guitar with a Compulator? Do they use it in their recording chain ( ie > mic pre > compulator > daw ), or plug gtr into it before the amp?
 
jkokura said:
I'd get the RNP and an RNC racked... and actually look at the Compulator - it's a guitar pedal. And I know a lot of guys rave about the DAV, but I think it's pretty much impossible to try one out, and I wouldn't go buy a pre without trying it first. Chances are you can go to pretty much anywhere and find someone who deals FMR and will let you try an RNP...

Jacob
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There is a rack version of the RNP > RNC on ebay for not too much. Hmmm.

Does sthe RNC warm up a digital recording? The ART PRO VLA that I use has somewhat of a warming effect I've noticed.
 
doriangrey said:
So do people track the guitar with a Compulator? Do they use it in their recording chain ( ie > mic pre > compulator > daw ), or plug gtr into it before the amp?
Click to expand...

It's a guitar pedal...go check out their website...search for Demeter Audio and look...they make amps, pedals, pres, and other things...

jacob
 
Wow. Tall order there. Lots of different sounds.

Number one reason they sound like they do? The Musician. Second is the Guitar/amp. If you want to get close to thier sound, you need to sound pretty close to how they sound before you even hook a mic up.

Otherwise, what Harvey said. :D
 
doriangrey said:
Yeah, I've read about the BG-1 on a few forums. I guess we don't hear much about them here in the states. Is this another neve based pre?
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no,not in the least..(thank God!) but since you mentioned neve...

Mick (the designer) used to work at Decca Records(you know, the huge record company). During that time he was approached by the staff with a request to build a preamp model that could replace Decca's Console(Neve) pres, as they were too noisy and colored for the brunt of what they were recording(classical/jazz, etc). They wanted 1.) Low Noise2.)Detail 3.) Something that was unique 4.) pres that were no compromise, and of superior quality. 5.) Unlimited budget for development, though they did encourage him to try to keep costs down.

The preamp that was born out of that request was the forefather to the BG-XX series of preamps. Those early models were rather primitive, posessing only one switch(phantom power). Over time, demand became so high for those pres that Mick started his own business, and carried the product through to its current evolution.

They arent well known stateside(though they are becoming so) because Mick does not market. Mark Knopfler and David Gilmour just purchased some of the BGXX preamps for their tours...the DAV products are beginning to take off, quite simply because they are rugged, reliable, and sonically superior. :D
Yeah, I know, it is a bold statement..but as ive owned many many "boutique" pres in my own search for Sonic Nirvana, I feel at least qualified in saying that out of the DACS, GML, Millennia, Hardy, Grace, Apogee.....DAV Reigns supreme..
I dont know about the RNC, but the RNP is nowhere near the DAV, sonically.


Decca sound, Decca heritage...what else is there?
 
NL5 said:
Wow. Tall order there. Lots of different sounds.

Number one reason they sound like they do? The Musician. Second is the Guitar/amp. If you want to get close to thier sound, you need to sound pretty close to how they sound before you even hook a mic up.

Otherwise, what Harvey said. :D
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I wouldn't be asking about the the mic pres, compressors and such if the musician part wasn't up to par. I have spent the last 20 years of my life aquiring my gear, so that's taken care of as well.

It's only been the past 2 years that I have taken home recording seriously. I just sold my Great River MP1NV for other needs and can't afford the 2 channel at this time ( I wish I could ). So, I'm on the search for a quality 2 channel mic pre that I can afford which brings me to this board.

I'm investing into a Royer 121 to use in conjunction with my sm57. This will be my first attempt to double mic my amp(s). From what I have been told, this new set up has the ability to take my guitar tracks to that next level. This is why I'm looking for a good/affordable 2 channel mic pre.

After Big Kenny suggested my compressor situation, I'm starting to wonder if I should now upgrade my ART Pro VLA for something better. I thought it was decent, but if I can sell it for $250 and buy a Demeter Compulator, maybe it's something to look into.
 
BigRay said:
no,not in the least..(thank God!) but since you mentioned neve...

Mick (the designer) used to work at Decca Records(you know, the huge record company). During that time he was approached by the staff with a request to build a preamp model that could replace Decca's Console(Neve) pres, as they were too noisy and colored for the brunt of what they were recording(classical/jazz, etc). They wanted 1.) Low Noise2.)Detail 3.) Something that was unique 4.) pres that were no compromise, and of superior quality. 5.) Unlimited budget for development, though they did encourage him to try to keep costs down.

The preamp that was born out of that request was the forefather to the BG-XX series of preamps. Those early models were rather primitive, posessing only one switch(phantom power). Over time, demand became so high for those pres that Mick started his own business, and carried the product through to its current evolution.

They arent well known stateside(though they are becoming so) because Mick does not market. Mark Knopfler and David Gilmour just purchased some of the BGXX preamps for their tours...the DAV products are beginning to take off, quite simply because they are rugged, reliable, and sonically superior. :D

I dont know about the RNC, but the RNP is nowhere near the DAV, sonically.
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all you had to do is say, "Mark Knopfler and David Gilmour".
wow, very interesting.
 
If you do go with the BG, be sure to Ask mick to customize it with 66db of Gain, since you have the royer.

Teddy


doriangrey said:
I wouldn't be asking about the the mic pres, compressors and such if the musician part wasn't up to par. I have spent the last 20 years of my life aquiring my gear, so that's taken care of as well.

It's only been the past 2 years that I have taken home recording seriously. I just sold my Great River MP1NV for other needs and can't afford the 2 channel at this time ( I wish I could ). So, I'm on the search for a quality 2 channel mic pre that I can afford which brings me to this board.

I'm investing into a Royer 121 to use in conjunction with my sm57. This will be my first attempt to double mic my amp(s). From what I have been told, this new set up has the ability to take my guitar tracks to that next level. This is why I'm looking for a good/affordable 2 channel mic pre.

I'm starting to wonder if I should now upgrade my ART Pro VLA for somehting better as well.
Click to expand...
 
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