I need advice on a studio setup

C

circleone420

New member
Hey whats up Everyone. Im working with a Roland VS 2480 digital recording workstation. Ive been using it for personal home recording use and now would like to build a studio to record bands. I would like to get a general idea of how I can enhance the sound and build a bigger and better studio setup off it. Even though its powered should I get good mic pres?? If so, how does it help the recording? I can record up to 16 tracks at the same time so does that mean I need a 16 channel mic pre? Im basically looking into rack units but I also know that Mic's play a big role also. The unit is great but I want to take it to the next level so that I can record bands semi-profesionaly.Doesnt matter if its expensive or not. Just as long as I get an idea of what i need to complete this setup. I would appreciate anybodys advice....thanx

Eric
 
I'll start.

To record bands semi professionally you wil lneed to start with a set of mics. One possible setup:
1. For kick drums that can handle high SPLs.
2. A set of 2 (matched) small diameter condensors for overheads and other various stero recording needs.
3. 1 or two large diameter condensors for vocals and other combinations. So many different options here, the idea (for this and other mic categories) is that each will provide a different color to the source, some might be better suited to some voicies and sources, other to different ones.
4. A few dynamics, like shure SM57 and/or SM58 for guitar cabinets, certain vocal styles, etc.

That will give you anywhere from, say, 5-10 microphone inputs. You will need preamp needs for each of these (you can use preamps on the recorder, but for semi-professional results you will probabaly want somehting beyond these). Preamps are like the microhones, there are stock ones that amplify the signal, provide phaontom power etc, and others that add color, warmth what have you. Assume you need a channel or preamp for as many sources you lpan tosimultaneously record at once. Since drum kit miking generally takes the most mics at once, this might be a good place to start, if you want to put a kick mic, snar, hats, 2-3 for toms, and 2 overheads you would need 5-8 mics. You don't need that many at all though. You probabaly want at least 3 for drums.

A mixer with lots of inputs can cover these needs and add eq and effects sends, monitoring, and all sorts of good stuff, but for the highest quality beaking compnents out that specialize in each function will be needed.

So far you ahve mics and preamps to get sound into your recorder. You can also purchase an assortment of effects units to add reverb, delay, compression etc to each track on the way in, or throguh a send out.

Last you need some decent monitoring for mixing, an amplifier and passive nearfields, or active nearfields with amplification built in.

Have fun
Daav
 
I'll add to what's been started. There's three basic elements to any studio: 1) Equipment (recorder, mics, etc.) 2) The Rooms (Control, recording) 3) The Engineer (guy who records and mixes)

You've got a little bit of all three right now, and to upgrade your system you've got to improve all three. You've got some alright equipment to start with, and you'll need to get some more. You've got a room to record in, and I'd advise that you definately improve that rooms acoustics. You've got some skilz, and you'll learn to develop them by reading a lot and practicing.

First off, what's your budget? Secondly, tell us more specifically what gear you have? I'm gonna make some suggestions and lay out some prices as some reference so you can see what I'll likely suggest.

Like buddy-what's-his-face just said, I agree that any studio needs at least 5 mics - 1 large dynamic (kick, bass, guitars), 1 regular dynamic (guitars, snare), 2 Small condensors (overheads, acoustic), and 1 Large condensor (Vocals, room, guitars, acoustic)

My suggestions for a good starter setup would be (all prices new, but I'd try and find em used if you can):
1 AKG D112/Shure Beta 52 (200) OR 1 MD421 (350)
1 Shure SM 57 (90)
2 Oktava MK012 (250) OR MXL 603 (150)
1 Rode NTK (500) OR AT 4040 (250) OR CAD M179 (200)

After this, it's all extra candy. With 5 mics and a good DI you can record everything in a typical band, 1 instrument at a time. Once you've got those basic categories covered you can start adding new mics and upgrading them to get more flavours. If you want to record more things at the same time you can add more mics (for instance, adding mics for toms and hi-hat, adding more mics for recording more than one amp at the same time). Most people like having choices, like 3 or 4 LDC's, 2 pairs of SDC's, a few dynamics, and 2 different kick mics. Using mics is a whole other subject and I suggest you read A LOT on that subject.

Next you'll have to make sure you have enough preamps. I suggest you get a solid base of 8 identical pres - call them your workhorse pres. Try to get the best you can, because these will be your pres that can be used in any circumstance. Good examples include the M Audio Octane (600), the Focusrite Octopre LE (600) and some others. With your VS-2480 you can plug mics into these pres and then plug the output on the back into the line ins on the Recorder. After you've got your workhorse pres you can start to look at buying better individual pres - these become your 'money' pres. Buy the best you can get here, because you'll use it as your primary pre for things like vocals, guitars, snare, etc. becaue it 'should' sound really good for what you want it to. Take your time and try a lot of pres out before you add a few of these to your system.

You've got the recorder, and this qualifies as the next three elements of a typical recording system - the interface, recorder and mixing software. Do you like it? Keep it and work with it, learn to use it to it's potential. When you've outgrown it then you can look at upgrading.

After this is probably one of the most important items in a soundchain - your monitors. This is NOT the place to skimp - get the best you can! A good set of starter monitors would be the Mackie HR824's (1000), or the Event 20/20 BAS (800?). Make sure you don't skimp here!

Lastly for equipment, there's a lot that you'll overlook if you don't plan for it now! Mic cables, headphone amplifiers, snakes, storage containers, mic stands, music stands, pop-screen, headphones - all that stuff starts to add up. One note about the miscellaneous stuff... Make sure you buy quality cables - that's not to say expensive, but buy good quality. I personally like Canare Starquad cable with Neutrik ends on it, and I make my own which saves me a bit of money. Nonetheless, if I were to re-make all my cables (mic and TRS) it would probably cost me close to 500 bucks...if you want to record lots of things at the same time you're going to need to think about all the misc. stuff.

Ok I think that's all for equipment for now... I figure if all you've got is the recorder and 1 or 2 mics you'll likely want to set aside 3-4 grand for all this equipment (800-1000 mics, 800- 1000 Misc, 600-1000 pres, 1000 monitors).

Next is the room...

Jacob
 
First off, go check out http://johnlsayers.com/ everthing I've learned of value about rooms I learned from there...

People skip over their rooms often from what I've read, but it's pretty vital to the recording process. basically you'll need two spaces for recording - a control room and a live room. It's usually easier to have them as two seperate spaces, but that depends on what you're working with and have available.

A control room will have a workspace for you to mix in, record from and control pretty much everything you're going to need to (hence control room). The idea is that you try to create a space that allows you to accurately hear whats coming out of your monitors. You should learn about what it takes to create a space that doesn't reflect sound from that website. There are people you can talk to about this in the Building section of this site as well.

A live room doesn't have to be completely dead (no 'echo') but it's usually a good idea to make it very un-reflective. This allows your mics to pick up the original sound and not the reverberation (echo) bouncing off the walls. Once again take a look around and learn what you can do.

Here's where the question of budget really has to come in. How much do you have? Do you have enough to build a new building? You're looking at $200-225 or MORE a square foot if you're building from scratch at a pro level. Are you doing this in your spare bedroom or your basement and all you have is 5 grand? Well if you're using 3-4 grand for equipment, you could probably spend the other 1-2 here. There's some ideas that could cost you as little as 50 bucks that would help, but I would suggest you create wall units (see John Sayers' sire) in both your control room and live room - that's a good start. Once again, talk to some people and tell them about your exact space and budget over at John's forum.

I think that's all I got tonight...tell me what you think...

Jacob
 
Thanx for your help and time Daav and Jacob. Well appreciated.

So heres my equipment list and budget.

Recording Console:
Roland VS-2480 digital workstation (24bit/96 khz)
been using it at 44.1k but have heard that bumping it to
96k can make it sound better.

CPU: PC /Interface: M audio Delta Series Omni I/O and
Midiman Midi interface. I use the cpu for drum machines, samplers etc..
But I sync up the Vs2480 to use it as the recording medium. Is it possible to
Intergrate a pro tools or digital performer unit with the Vs 2480??


Monitors:
Roland DS-90A 24bit digital speakers
Hooked up via Coaxial with SPIDIF cables

Mics:
1 Shure SM57
2 Shure BG 4.1 (Condensor)
1 Shure Beta 58
1 Audio Technica X1 (Cardoid)

I have plenty of stands and cables so thats cool.

Has far as budget goes im working with about $2500-$3000.
Im definitley looking into finding used gear.
Ive just got sponsored by sam ash so I get a $250 tab
everymonth on any accessories. Acoustic insulation is
considered an accessorie so I plan to start using the tab on that
unless you guys think theres other stuff I should get before hand.
Im going to be buying a home soon and converting it into a studio Facility/Suite. 1 control room and 1 recording room. This will be a 2-4 month proccess espeacially considering the monthly tab so let me know what you guys think.

Thanx again guys!!
 
Hearing what you have so far I would say you need to concentrate on mics, your rooms, and your monitors.

You could integrate your VS with you computer somehow, but it could get quite complicated. Look into it, but simple is good...

I don't know what acoustic insulation you're looking at, but I've never met a piece of foam that 'soundproofed' my room...soundproofing starts with the basic frame of the building and is a process of adding the right building materials. Making a room 'non-reflective' or 'absorbing' is all foam can do. I'd rather build the units from John's site for that than shell out for foam... If it were my 250, I'd buy things like mic stands, quality cables, headphones and other such accessories and spend a little cash on MDF and Rockwool... But that's just me.

Jacob
 
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