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Thread: Golden Age Premier PREQ-73 proper connection doubt

  1. #11
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    With that Mic you don't need more gain...its very sensitive and can pick up sounds easily at 20mv/pa. (compared to a SM7b at 1.2mv/pa)

    With that preamp you are probably adding some noise compared to the 003, which has 4 Mic inputs.
    Using the Line Inputs should work fine too, using a Mic In doesn't ruin anything Ive been told, its just acting like a pad.

    If you aren't going for some transformer/overdrive, it wouldn't surprise me if you don't hear much difference and maybe some added noise as more electronic stuff is added in the loop/chain. Transformer for one, etc....

    Solid State is the Uber clean, imo… and you already have that with the 003. Ive tried a lot of stuff at home and find it isnt some huge-wow moment and question a lot of the hype, or at least my application of the unit isn't making anything become a wow-upgrade.

    SPEC 003
    THD + N
    Microphone/Line inputs and Line: 0.0007%

    Mic Inputs
    Connector: Four balanced XLR jacks
    Mic Phantom Power: 48V
    Equivalent Input Noise: -129dBu
    Frequency Response: 0.1dB, 20Hz - 20kHz
    Dynamic Range: 105dB / 107dB A-weighted
    THD + N: 0.0007% (-103dB)
    Mic EIN: -129dBu
    Input Sensitivity: +2.2dBu
    Input Impedance: 2K
    Gain Range: +18 - +65dB

    Also written as a "discrete preamp" on the 003...when the era was transistors and caps were more vibe than IC only. (but cheaper than transformers and tubes)...DISCRETE Component Era.

    Last edited by CoolCat; 04-28-2019 at 07:19.

    if it's not happening in the room, it ain't gonna happen on tape.-H.Gerst

  2. #12
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    I was watching some YT vids just recently and the statement was made that good mic preamps are not going to introduce enough self-noise to worry about and that condenser mic's self-noise will always exceed the preamp noise. (Again, assuming a good preamp.)

    All of this usually becomes irrelevant for home (or live/location) recorders because the ambient noise is usually our bigger problem, though it may only matter if you've got some spots of dead silence in your mixes (IMO/IME). Of course, constant noise (e.g. from HVAC or something else) that's obvious can be causing other problems though, so you want to get your ambient noise under control. (The audible ambient noise in those little clips I posted is actually that Behringer speaker buzzing softly - it's still down about -57dB, but it would typically be a hair quieter typically in my tiny room).
    "... I know in the mornin' that it's gonna be good
    when I stick out my elbows and they don't bump wood." - Bill Kirchen

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by keith.rogers View Post
    I was watching some YT vids just recently and the statement was made that good mic preamps are not going to introduce enough self-noise to worry about and that condenser mic's self-noise will always exceed the preamp noise. (Again, assuming a good preamp.)

    All of this usually becomes irrelevant for home (or live/location) recorders because the ambient noise is usually our bigger problem, though it may only matter if you've got some spots of dead silence in your mixes (IMO/IME). Of course, constant noise (e.g. from HVAC or something else) that's obvious can be causing other problems though, so you want to get your ambient noise under control. (The audible ambient noise in those little clips I posted is actually that Behringer speaker buzzing softly - it's still down about -57dB, but it would typically be a hair quieter typically in my tiny room).
    If they mean purely electronic self noise Keith I think they are wrong. There are some phenomenally quiet cap' mics around now. If they mean the combined room and electronic noise? Well that is a cross all us hammy bodgers have to bear!

    Dave.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ecc83 View Post
    If they mean purely electronic self noise Keith I think they are wrong. There are some phenomenally quiet cap' mics around now. If they mean the combined room and electronic noise? Well that is a cross all us hammy bodgers have to bear!
    Top mic pres are -120dB - was just looking at one that said -129dB. I'd have to think that's about as truly noiseless as anything could be. But we agree, once you set up in almost any room, there's a whole lot of other noise around us that makes preamp, and likely mic self-noise, moot, unless you are trying to record the flutter of butterfly wings, perhaps.
    "... I know in the mornin' that it's gonna be good
    when I stick out my elbows and they don't bump wood." - Bill Kirchen

  5. #15
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    What is Self-Noise (or Equivalent Noise Level)?

    That ^ gives the downlow on self noise. The very best LDCs can get below 10dBA (Lewitt claim 0dBA for one model!) and they suggest the very best a mic pre and dynamic can do is 18dBA but do admit that anything lower than 20dBA is easily good enough for most applications.

    My AKG P150s are nowt special but I get a noise floor on a good day better than -70dBfs. Or more correctly a good NIGHT! Son used to record in the wee smalls, before the pigeons got up.

    Dave.

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    In the 1980's we had a single channel strip from a Trident console, we ran into a 1/2" tape 8 multitrack. Man that rig was noisy, but it sounded awesome once you put a signal through it. We learned not to record dead space. We weren't a metal band screaming through it, but we didn't do real quiet acoustic material either.

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    And, once again we have different noise specs for different components, so how do you make sense of it all? I found this page to be helpful, where it compares (or converts) mic self-noise with (to) noise floor (dBu). About halfway down there's a section on Noise, which tries to make sense of it. It confirms, more or less, the generality I heard expressed that dynamic mics have no noise to worry about, while condenser mic's self-noise typically exceeds that of a good preamp. So, I'll concede some mics, might beat some pres, in general, most won't - if you believe this table, of course!

    Selecting Mic Preamps

    And, to bend @rob aylestone 's (made elsewhere IIRC) and @Peter Pavlonis 's points a bit,trying to make decisions based on specs alone is really nonsense.
    "... I know in the mornin' that it's gonna be good
    when I stick out my elbows and they don't bump wood." - Bill Kirchen

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Pavlonis View Post
    In the 1980's we had a single channel strip from a Trident console, we ran into a 1/2" tape 8 multitrack. Man that rig was noisy, but it sounded awesome once you put a signal through it. We learned not to record dead space. We weren't a metal band screaming through it, but we didn't do real quiet acoustic material either.
    interesting.... I know when I get too far down the hole on noise obsession, sometimes tossing on a drum track makes the noise seem irrelevant.

    if it's not happening in the room, it ain't gonna happen on tape.-H.Gerst

  9. #19
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    Sorry Keith, cannot agree that specs don't tell you what you need to know. However! The specs have to be honest and well written.

    One specification, vital IMO, is rarely given for AIs is the level needed at mic and line inputs for say, -20dBFS*. The OUTput from line jacks is more frequently given but not always.
    Armed with that number we can then easily see how useful an AIs mic pre will be with say a 57/58 because we know those mics, and most other dynamics, put out a bit over a mV (-60dBV) . The actual gain of the preamp matters little, it is whether it can get to neg 20 or so with common acoustic signals, folkesy/ballad level vocals, acousic guitar. Speech can be a test of system noise but then so is getting the normal HR space quiet enough.

    All the newcomer needs to know is. Get a decent mic, capacitor or dynamic. Plug it into almost any AI made in the last 3years or so and you will not have either a noise or an overload problem...Except certain people with certain voice, e.g. our opera singer in another thread.

    IF! You have a problem with that kit there is something wrong. Probably you!

    *The newb may not know that a clip that reads "-20dBfs" in one DAW will read exactly the same in any other (AFAIK and as far as I have checked this in a good 1/2doz DAWs) Thus, we have a...T'DAH!! "world industry standard" and IMO equipment makers should make vastly better use of it!

    Dave.

    Dave.
    Last edited by ecc83; 04-29-2019 at 06:53.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecc83 View Post
    Sorry Keith, cannot agree that specs don't tell you what you need to know. However! The specs have to be honest and well written.
    ....
    The operative phrase in my comment was "based on specs alone" Dave. Of course they provide useful information, but they don't tell you everything and cannot tell you how you (or anyone else) will actually sound in your space/studio with their unique voice and technique.

    Yes, if you look at two frequency response curves and know how they were measured, and you sing in the consistent volume of the frequency sweep applied and perfectly on-axis at the same distance, you can say that the bump in mic X's curve vs. Y's will have a similar impact on your voice, but many of us don't do that because we have to sing much closer to reduce (relatively) ambient noise and we find out that proximity effect of the mics matters more than a 1dB bump at 8kHz, and that wasn't in the spec. (Never mind the head bobbing around and turning to look at the guitar fingerboard or keyboard while we're singing!)

    I'm just saying that we sometimes just get augered in on nits in the specs that really have not much to do with the results we can obtain in our imperfect little [real] worlds.

    P.S. Noise is important! But, again, compared to the lawn guys working next door, the least of my concerns .
    "... I know in the mornin' that it's gonna be good
    when I stick out my elbows and they don't bump wood." - Bill Kirchen

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