compresser/Gate Limiter why you need one

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kybdplr

New member
I am a keyboardist and am told my mix comes through louder than my fellow band mates,
I use a crown 300 watt amp and a few separates 12" Yamaha and a JBL for my mains using a Mackie MS1202 to mix 3 boards on stage. Exactly what does a limiter/gate or compressor do? and can it help me ?

Pro keyboardist - yes
Pro audio guy - No

kybdplr

Thanks
 
kybdplr said:
I am a keyboardist and am told my mix comes through louder than my fellow band mates,
I use a crown 300 watt amp and a few separates 12" Yamaha and a JBL for my mains using a Mackie MS1202 to mix 3 boards on stage. Exactly what does a limiter/gate or compressor do? and can it help me ?

Pro keyboardist - yes
Pro audio guy - No

kybdplr

Thanks
Click to expand...
Just turn down dude... a compressor will just make your perceived volume louder
 
If you hook up a decent comp/gate, you can definitely nip off a few dB off the louder patches (and cut out any system noise when you're not playing).
 
Most of the new keys have a normalization function to make all your patches the same output level at least that's what I've ran into with keyboardist I've worked with.
If not- note which patches need to go up and down (Talk that one over with your band mates in rehearsal) and do it manually at the key board before each song when playing out.
Do you also go through the PA ? If so get that speaker of your keyboard rig up and only facing you cause it is only then your monitor keep it low in volume and let the sound guy or main PA do the heavy work, try to have the other band mates to do the same.

Now you can try a comp/limit/gate but different patches will act differently through the unit(s) if it's on your on stage rig having to be constantly being tweaked the same as manually turning your keys up and down like I mentioned earlier.
If you have a FOH and a sound guy- ya by all means insert a comp/limit/gate into the keyboard channel and have him tend to it the final mix will be incredible. that's why in the pro live world you have such person and the gear for him to work with. If you don't have a sound guy get one he 's worth his weight in gold, your band will be up to levels beyond the next level commanding better paying gigs in better venues etc etc
 
compress the keys

If you still want to compress, try pushing the squeeze to about 8-12 decible reduction and the increase the output gain to around 6 db or whatever feels good.
 
I play keyboards as well and I have never had the same problem. I honestly don't think that you should be the one worrying about these kind of problems. Give your bandmates hell for even asking you about it. If you are having problems like this there are probably bigger problems lurking nearby (bigger problems in the mix). Patches are different but keyboard outputs don't change that much. I'm on your side here.
 
tjsmithmusic said:
If you still want to compress, try pushing the squeeze to about 8-12 decible reduction and the increase the output gain to around 6 db or whatever feels good.
Click to expand...
Eight to twelve Decibels of reduction...?

Doesn't that seem - Oh I don't know... Maybe just a teeny tiny bit on the "really super extreme" side?
 
The problem of maintaining a level consistent level over different patches is very real. I can't think of a keyboardist I've played with who didn't run in to this problem at some point. Many organ patches' volume levels, for example, aren't touch-sensitive, whereas piano patches are. So, switching between the two will likely require an adjustment in volume.

You need a good monitor mix so you can make the inevitable adjustments. Maybe put some tape marks on the volume controls to help recall levels. You can also program level changes into the patches or the performance recollections of the trouble patches to help. But even then, you still need to maek adjustments, because every situation is different.
 
loquat said:
I play keyboards as well and I have never had the same problem. I honestly don't think that you should be the one worrying about these kind of problems. Give your bandmates hell for even asking you about it. If you are having problems like this there are probably bigger problems lurking nearby (bigger problems in the mix). Patches are different but keyboard outputs don't change that much. I'm on your side here.
Click to expand...

I'm a keyboard player and a sound engineer and I would completely disagree with your statement. Usually the stock patches are fairly close in volume but it depends on how you are playing them for the song. Once you go in and edit effects or patch parameters you can change the volume drastically.

I would recomend just figuring out which patches are too loud and turn them down in the patch or just adjust the volume manually while playing. I have to adjust my volume all the time depending on the song and the volume of the guitars and drums. And I only use 1 patch exclusively on each keyboard.
 
TexRoadkill said:
... I have to adjust my volume all the time depending on the song and the volume of the guitars and drums. And I only use 1 patch exclusively on each keyboard.
Click to expand...

As a guitar player (with far fewer variables than keys) I can relate.
As a recordist an interesting side note; Recording keys' (organ with volume peddal even more so) it seems to be the tracks that need the most gain automation to get them to ride correctly in a mix.
Nine out of ten (whatever :)) I'll request whatever you're doing, devide it by two or so please..'
:)
 
loquat said:
I play keyboards as well and I have never had the same problem. I honestly don't think that you should be the one worrying about these kind of problems. Give your bandmates hell for even asking you about it.
Click to expand...


Never in 22 years of live performance have I had a situation where the keyboards were too loud - the hard thing is hearing them in the first place!
 
I had the same problem with some of my patches. I purchased a Radio Shack db meter. I set up my keyboard to an amp with the db meter in front of it so I could see the read out. I stepped through all of my patches adjusting the volume of the patches to the desired db reading.
When I played live, all of my patches came through at the same level.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103667
 
kybdplr said:
what I mean is that some patches are louder than others dynamically speaking
Click to expand...

I guess you're talking about the sound on stage, not PA. Here are some tips:

  1. Have a decent keyboard monitor to use on stage, preferably one with a volume knob you can reach. It's good to have your own so you "get to know it".
  2. Match the levels of the patches on the keyboard through this monitor at home first.
  3. Carry the monitor to rehearsal places and gigs. Sounds will vary with room/stage acoustics so it's good to have the volume knob to reach for as a last resort.

On a side note, it's great to have stereo speakers since many samples (such as piano) are "true stereo" and phase cancellation will occur when summing two channels on a mono speaker.
 
I always take a small amp (Gallean Kruger) to gigs. I do not trust it when they say that they will have a monitor. If you have a small amp very close to you, you can set it so you get blasted and they will be telling you to turn up.

It has nothing to do with compression. It has to do with the fact that when you play you want your mix to be louder than it should be in the total mix so that you can monitor it and "fix" anything before the audience hears it.

When I talk I hear it louder than you do because my mouth is close to my ear. It's natural to want to monitor yourself higher than the volume it should be from the audience's perspective.

The solution is moving the monitor close to your ear, really close if needed.
 
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