Advice on vocal mic pre/comp for live and studio use

D

dl73882

New member
Hi all! I am looking for some advice on a mic preamp/compressor/processor for vocals. The band is rock/alternative style, and is fairly loud usually. The vocalist is a petite female who does not have an overly powerful voice, so the gains always need to be at the edge of feeding back to be able to cut through the band. The vocals come out sounding kind of thin/cold, and vary frequently between soft and loud singing, with some screaming as well.
Currently I am using a DBX 286a mic pre/compressor. It sounds ok, but has not helped warm up the vocals really, and sound quality doesn't really seem to be any better than going straight to the powered mixer (currently a Yorkville AP818), in fact it may have even less clarity through the DBX. The only thing it has really helped is keeping the channel from clipping on the mixer during the louder singing.
I was considering a Focusrite Voicemaster Pro, and its' price is at about the limit of what I am looking to spend.
First of all, I need something that can be used for both live and recording, all I ever hear about it refers to recording, is the Focusrite just as appropriate for live use as it is for recording? Second, based on the situation described, does anyone know of something else that would be a better choice? In the same price range or less of course :)
Almost forgot, for live the mic is a Shure Beta 58a, for recording a Studio Projects C1. Thanks for any help/advice anyone may have!!
 
Check out the PreSonus Eureka. It's an extremely versatile piece, sounds great, and is built like a tank (would easily withstand going on the road). It's got built in compression, parametric EQ, variable impedance, tube/tape saturation emulation (can be cool in some cases), and plenty of gain. I've used it on vocals with great success, and it makes an excellent bass DI too!!

http://www.presonus.com/eureka.html

Usually sells for $499, but deals can be found... ;)

Jay
 
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The focusrite is prone to high heat. If you're live, it will need lots of air and in a warm room could cause problems. Keep it low in the rack and leave 1 spacer above it. Then you will have few problems. The detail you want out of a dedicated preamp is generally not required for live use so my advice is to leave it at home and try to EQ around the feeback problems, that or turn the band down.

That said, I use it all the time for vocal tracks and it is exceptional. Not what I would call a road warrior however.
 
Thank you for the suggestions! In the case of the PreSonus Eureka, is its' lack of an expander/gate and de-esser a downfall for it's use as an all-in-one vocal unit? Particularly with live use since the mic picks up a lot of the sound from the band it would be nice to have the expander to deal with it (is there a better way?).
Also, does anyone have any input on the Joe Meek OneQ being used in the described situations?
Thanks again!
 
For a mic you will find that the Audix OM3 will work wonders. It has excellant feedback rejection and sounds great on female vox. You can also make some killer recordings with them. Don't fall into the Sm58 trap
 
My personal experience has been that the Audix mics are no less prone to feedback than an sm58. In fact, I ran a big rock club for a year and a half and almost every Audix vocal mic had way more problems with feedback. Mic an monitor placement and room reflections have a lot more to do with feedback issues than people pay attention to. I don't have a problem with the Audix mics, but an sm58 is the industry standard for a reason. They are solid dependable, affordable and durable. As far as what mics are better? Neither. They all just sound a little different. What I do love about 58's though is you can get them anywhere, you buy grill replacements just about anywhere, and they are probably the most durable mic out there. Not to mention that if you do have a problem with a 58, you can just use one supplied by whatever club you are in and just use your own grill assembly for "germ" reasons.
 
Xstatic I know you know more about recording than I do, but I think I have you cornered on live sound. As a sound contrator for large churches and theme parks I've found that the Audix Om3 and Om5 beets the SM58 99% of the time. If you talk in the back of an Audix mic you will here almost no sound no try that with an SM58. It sounds like you are amost in from of it. Audix mics has such a tight patern that you can't be more than 3" from the mic. Other wise you get into proximity effect problems. You have to be right in it. Thats why you want see a group of 2-3 people singing into an Audix mic. The audix has a much richer sound than the Sm58 and is about the best female vox mic you can find.
 
Actually, Live Sound is what I do for a living. My studio is what I do when I am not gigging (sound in general is my true love, live or studio). A long time ago I had a band swear by their EV nd737's because they were "hotter" than 58's. They wouldn't listen until I showed them by setting up two channels with the same gain stage. On the same token, in the last 8 years, I have probably worked with 1000 or more bands. I leased a syatem to and system teched and engineered at a big rock club for almost 2 years and worked with 100's of touring acts. Several of them brought Audix mics with them. EVERY band that did was constantly fighting feedback. Most ended up taking my advice and switching to a 58 for the show. BIG difference. Lots more monitor gain, less feedback. Then on the other side of the coin, I have used the Audix mics on many an occasion with no problems also. Some shows I have used a Neumann KMS105 with no problems, and on others if you just looked at it wrong it wanted to feedback. The bottom line is that if the Audix mics really sounded that much better, were louder, were more durable, and were less prone to feedback (like so many of the people who have bought Audix mics often tout to me), then noone would use anything else. Maybe there is a reason why probably more than half the non-endorsed touring acts out there use Shure mics. I like 58's because I always know EXACTLY how to manage them and what I will get. I actually prefer an sm58 to a beta 58. If I want a little tighter pattern and a little added presence, I just pull out a beta 57a. Maybe for yuor contract installs the Audix work great for you. Thats fine:) PLesae keep in mind that I do also run a pro audio company, I didn't say anything bad about Audix mics in my post, and after all the reccomendations that I have made to people I have never ONCE offered to sell them anything like you have in other posts.

I firmly believe that we all have different opinions and different ways of getting results. Personally, I don't like JBL speakers much at all. Yet I don't talk trash about them. You stated above " Don't fall into the Sm58 trap ". To me that opened the door for me to share my experiences with Audix mics. Yet i did so without being actually negative about them.

Also, I would never presume to say that I do or don't know more about recording than you. I don't know you, or your work, or your abilities so who would I be to pass judgement? As for you having me "cornered on live sound". I won't pass any judgement there either for the same reasons mentioned before. I do know though that as of yet I have been succesful with my work since I am always being hired. Thats really all I need to know.
 
deepwater said:
The audix has a much richer sound than the Sm58 and is about the best female vox mic you can find.
Click to expand...

I've never used the audix mics, but I used to like an ATM41 in place of a 58 on female vox.
 
We proved to ourselves in a venue with good acoutics, doing an extended soundcheck with a very helpful pro sound guy we were paying ourselves, that the SM58 was very less than helpful to our particular female singer. (She has exactly the same issues that dl37 mentioned.) For her we most liked the AKG stage condensor (C900 I think), also the Sennheiser e835.

Having said that when we do gigs for promoters who have their own sound guys, you lose more than you gain by bringing your own mic's !!
 
XStatic

You knowing more about a recording was a true compliment you have given me some great advice. I'm with you on JBL and EV I don't care to much for them eather. I'm more of a Renkus-Hienz and EAW man. I still say Audix beats Shure. I didn't mean to come over so arrogant. (I read my post again and it was kinda, yea)
 
Thanks for all the advice on mic selection as well, when I was looking around Audix never even really came into my head as a choice for some reason. The suggestion was made that the OM3 is a good choice and sounds good with female vox, does the same hold true for the OM5, OM6 and the OM7, or is the OM3 still the best choice in this case even though the others are higher end (or at least priced ;) )?
 
The female singer in my band uses the OM-5. I've tried to switch hers with a OM-3 and 7 and she knows that's not her mic.
 
OM5 and OM3 work great for the female vox. The OM6 has a more hyped highend and can get harsh on some Female vox. However the OM6 is a great male/instrument mic. OM5 is a great choose for eather.
 
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