who knows about ribbon mics?

bubbleboy

bubbleboy

New member
I have read about the coles, AEA, old skool RCA, and now the Royers, but of course have never even seen one in real life.

Can anyone tell me if I want to record both clean and distorted electric guitars with a mic, how will a ribbon compare to an SM57?

Would it be stupid to get a ribbon to use in a non pro studio (i.e. not totally sound proof home/apartment studio w/a digital multitracker)?

I really want something non-condenser like, and I've heard the ribbons are unique, without the tizz and smoother sound.

too bad royers are >$1000, that's what I would want.

anyone own any ribbons to comment on?
 
bubbleboy said:
Can anyone tell me if I want to record both clean and distorted electric guitars with a mic, how will a ribbon compare to an SM57?
Click to expand...


It will be smoother and less edgy in the midrange. You'll also get a lot more bottom end out of a ribbon, and just an overall bigger sound image in most cases if that makes any sense.

Would it be stupid to get a ribbon to use in a non pro studio (i.e. not totally sound proof home/apartment studio w/a digital multitracker)?
Click to expand...


I guess that's more of a philosophical question. To be honest, and this is just a personal opinion, but I don't see much point at all investing in expensive mics if you're just doing it for a hobby. On the other hand, if you're serious about recording . . . or hope to be very serious one day, and you have the financial resources, then by all means get whatever toys you want, as you'll always have use for good equipment somewhere down the road.

I really want something non-condenser like.
Click to expand...


Ribbons usually fit that role nicely. :D
 
An Electro-Voice EV RE15 sounds similar to a RCA 77 and they run under $150 used typically. Another you may want to add to that is the EV 635a which has more inherent clarity (not better/worse-just different).

Chris
 
I have always managed to get good sounds on electric guitars out of a 57. Even with all the condensors I own I almost always end up using the sm57 track mostly. However, since I got a Royer 121 everything has changed. Now I don't even multi mic most of the time, and my 57 doesn't end up on guitars. The Royer has a very round fat sound to it. It doesn't have that extra high end air like condensors and takes very well to EQ which makes my electric guitar tracks sit really nice in all of my mixes. It allows me to get a fat aggresive guitar sound without having to worry about it getting brittle or harsh at times. If you can afford it and are serious about your electric guitar sounds, the Royer is a definate winner.
 
bubbleboy said:
I have read about the coles, AEA, old skool RCA, and now the Royers, but of course have never even seen one in real life.

Can anyone tell me if I want to record both clean and distorted electric guitars with a mic, how will a ribbon compare to an SM57?

Would it be stupid to get a ribbon to use in a non pro studio (i.e. not totally sound proof home/apartment studio w/a digital multitracker)?

I really want something non-condenser like, and I've heard the ribbons are unique, without the tizz and smoother sound.

too bad royers are >$1000, that's what I would want.

anyone own any ribbons to comment on?
Click to expand...

Some people buy jetskis, some snow mobiles, some motorcycles, and some ribbon mics. Just another toy, I give you permission to buy. Go and get it.
 
chessrock said:
It will be smoother and less edgy in the midrange.
Click to expand...
Hey Chess -- I heard that a lot of people use ribbons on saxophones (I play tenor sax). However, a "smoother & less edgy midrange" seems to me is exactly what you wouldn't want on a sax, right? I needs to be crunchy & you certainly wouldn't want to smooth out things. Would you agree? I used some LDCs on sax which are known to be "smooth", but didn't like the sound at all (my first choice is the Neumann KM184 -- very crunchy & detailed sound in the mids, with a nice hype at the top)
 
I have one ribbon mic; its an RCA 77DX, from what I'm told, Ribbon Mics are extremely delicate, and need to be treated with care.
I wouldn't put my RCA up next to a guitar amp.
 
Giganova said:
Hey Chess -- I heard that a lot of people use ribbons on saxophones (I play tenor sax). However, a "smoother & less edgy midrange" seems to me is exactly what you wouldn't want on a sax, right? I needs to be crunchy & you certainly wouldn't want to smooth out things. Would you agree? I used some LDCs on sax which are known to be "smooth", but didn't like the sound at all (my first choice is the Neumann KM184 -- very crunchy & detailed sound in the mids, with a nice hype at the top)
Click to expand...

spoken like a sax player!

personally, i don't like that cruchcy stuff to be too loud. i only find saxes to be nice sounding when i am about 20 feet or more away from them. the crunch is what defines a sax as a sax, but too much and UGLY it gets. methinks.

ribbon good choice.
 
Giganova said:
Hey Chess -- I heard that a lot of people use ribbons on saxophones (I play tenor sax). However, a "smoother & less edgy midrange" seems to me is exactly what you wouldn't want on a sax, right? I needs to be crunchy & you certainly wouldn't want to smooth out things. Would you agree?
Click to expand...

Whatever works. I dunno' if I'd want a bright, screechy sax blarin' away in my ear. :D Might be just me, though.
 
you guys rock w/this crazy ribbon knowledge. better advice and input than i ever have gotten. for example, guy at guitar center told me when i asked about them, 'i don't think they make those anymore'.

one of the reasons i asked is i really like the sounds steve albini gets, and i heard he often (more than other rock producers) uses ribbons on guitars, but wasn't sure in exactly what situations.

xstatic thanks for your personal experience commentary on the royer. it sounds like an amazing piece. and exactly what I'm going for. one day......

chess i'm looking up those EV's and the beyer eeldip mentioned.

do you guys know/think the ribbon could be damaged from a few bumps during shipping, or if the damage concern is really confined to the wind/blowing issue?

thanks--so glad to be back reading homerec.com after a 5 yr hiatus..
 
Michael Jones said:
I have one ribbon mic; its an RCA 77DX, from what I'm told, Ribbon Mics are extremely delicate, and need to be treated with care.
I wouldn't put my RCA up next to a guitar amp.
Click to expand...

I probably wouldn't put a vintage RCA up against a guitar amp either. The Royers however break many of the "ribbon rules". They will take some serious SPL, don't have to be stored horizontally, and even make a couple models that require phantom power. They are kind of made for loud guitars:D
 
Bubble, one way to learn more about ribbons is to follow a (typical) evolution of broadcast microphones in order of popularity over time;

RCA 44>RCA 77>EV 666>RE15>U87>RE20 (aka nickname "condenser killer")

This is one common example of what a long standing radio station would use over time. Electro-Voice promoted the wider frequency response RE20 as the U87 was getting popular with FM stations who wanted a crisper sound to take advantage of the greater bandwidth vs. AM.

Unfortunately for Neumann, many stations found that the more sensitive condenser would pick up chairs squeaking, etc.
So the RE20 tends to be a better practical choice for this and other reasons.

The EV 666 and RE15 were designed to be a similar drop in replacement for the RCA 77. The cost of fixing a ribbon was more than the mic was worth in the 70's. Therefore you could dumpster dive for 77's for free in the radio
stations trash when they'd throw them out! :)

EV's concept was brilliant IMHO, to design a ribbonish toned dynamic that was much more rugged than the RCA ribbon.

Expect both these models to continue to rise in value as they are
discontinued. The EV 666 is no longer service supported anymore BTW.

Chris
 
Some observations about ribbons.

1. They have a weak signal, so need lots of clean gain from the preamp. If you don't have a good preamp a ribbon is a bad choice.

2. All ribbons are a figure 8 pattern. So you will be picking up a lot more of the room than you will from a cardoid mic. How much of that room do you want to pick up?
 
Innovations said:
2. All ribbons are a figure 8 pattern. So you will be picking up a lot more of the room than you will from a cardoid mic. How much of that room do you want to pick up?
Click to expand...

Innovation,

I am sorry to correct you, but not all the ribbons are Fig8. There are cardioids, hypercardioids, omnis. Also, RCA and Altec/WE made ribbon mics with continiously variable pattern from fig 8 to omni.
 
Marik said:
Innovation,

I am sorry to correct you, but not all the ribbons are Fig8. There are cardioids, hypercardioids, omnis. Also, RCA and Altec/WE made ribbon mics with continiously variable pattern from fig 8 to omni.
Click to expand...
Really, I was under the impression that figure 8 was inherent with the technology. Certainly figure 8s predominate what is available out there.
 
great thread :) I was looking for a ribbon mic for recording Electric Guitar too.

Would it be safe to use a newer ribbon (like the Beyer M260 for instance) in front of loud guitar amps ?

(I'm thinking about these ;) ) :

wooshWall3.jpg



BTW, does anyone can tell what are the mics that Koss was using in this picture in front of the Marshall ? One (on the right) looks like an old ribbon...

Koss%20in%20Studio.jpg
 
Well, it is not a great picture, but if I were to make a guess it would not be a ribbon but rather a sennheiser MD-409, the predecessor the the current E609 Silver. The fact that close-micing loud guitar cabinets is considered the forte of the MD 409 and E609 also makes it a likely guess.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top