Want to uprgrade Neumann TLM 102, AT 4040, SE 2220, Rode NT1 or your suggestion?

geotungz

Member
Hi,


I will be recording hip hop vocals with the next microphone I intend to purchase. I want a condenser microphone. I am wondering if I should be buying a Neumann TLM 102, that is as far as my budget allows me to go. I was considering the AT 4040, SE 2220, Rode NT1 as alternatives. Mostly vocals and acoustic guitars will be recorded with the mic, not much else.

I added a rough draft of remix of TLC's waterfalls, my first verse comes in at 1:16 second, and the 2 min 46 minutes.
I recorded through an sm58 and an AT 2020 , mixed the stereo signal to an 85% 2020 to 15% SM58 , I am using a Scarlett 2i4 interface.
I had 2 layers of EQ, two de-ssing compressing, a compressor and limiting with a bit of reverb on the vocal for my signal chain. I still find the top end to be sibilant, even the raw vocals, even after I DO any of you have better suited microphones, what would you recommend?

What microphone would you guys recommend that would work with my voice?

I attempted to attach the raw vocals before processing but it doesn't work
 

Attachments

  • Geo Tungz Waterfalls Interpolation.mp3
    8.5 MB · Views: 21
Not my style, but first, if you have sibilance naturally, then I would try to work on addressing it in your vocal, maybe get a vocal coach or at least watch as many youtube videos on it as you can.

Then, I only use Izotope's RX for "surgical" sibilance cleanup, and it's extremely effective, but you have to get a clear picture (literally in the editor) of the actual frequency range of the sibilance and then carefully select it and adjust the amount of de-attenuation so you don't change the Ss to THs, for instance. It's fairly tedious but fine for what I do. I did see a demo of Melodyne 5 that looked pretty impressive, where it does a good job of identifying sibilance, and you can just go through and select all of it and de-attenuate it together. Almost had me pull out the card for an upgrade, but I just don't do that many things that matter right now...

Do your de-essing one time, precisely, before anything else, is my advice. Compression is going to make it worse, so try to use some EQ and maybe dynamic EQ if you can (or possibly mess with MBC with leaving alone the high-frequencies, so you don't add makeup gain in the sibilance region).

Most condensers are not going to make sibilance control easier, IMO. My out of budget recommendation would probably be the AEA KU5A.
 
Hi,
If sibilance is the issue I'd look more towards TLM193 or maybe dynamic mics.
SM7B is recommended time and time again but if you've got a loud source or plenty of gain it's hard to go wrong with it.

That said, if it's that much of an issue it's probably something that can be address at (by) the source or, at least, helped out a lot by mic position.
How much have you experimented with that. Pointing a mic at someone's chin instead of their mouth can make a huge difference!
 
the at 2020 and the sm58 are known to be very sibilant and harsh at certain frequencies. The 193 is almost twice above my budget, the 102 is 1100 tax in with the mount in Canadian currency. That is as far up as I can go unfortunately
 
Not my style, but first, if you have sibilance naturally, then I would try to work on addressing it in your vocal, maybe get a vocal coach or at least watch as many youtube videos on it as you can.

Then, I only use Izotope's RX for "surgical" sibilance cleanup, and it's extremely effective, but you have to get a clear picture (literally in the editor) of the actual frequency range of the sibilance and then carefully select it and adjust the amount of de-attenuation so you don't change the Ss to THs, for instance. It's fairly tedious but fine for what I do. I did see a demo of Melodyne 5 that looked pretty impressive, where it does a good job of identifying sibilance, and you can just go through and select all of it and de-attenuate it together. Almost had me pull out the card for an upgrade, but I just don't do that many things that matter right now...

Do your de-essing one time, precisely, before anything else, is my advice. Compression is going to make it worse, so try to use some EQ and maybe dynamic EQ if you can (or possibly mess with MBC with leaving alone the high-frequencies, so you don't add makeup gain in the sibilance region).

Most condensers are not going to make sibilance control easier, IMO. My out of budget recommendation would probably be the AEA KU5A.

As for the chain, I added two de essers to tone down one region of the high end and mids broadly, the mics are very aggressive there and the other one was in the harsher area. 7500 to 12000 range, the issue being the compressor band used in my software compressor is not very precise it seems. Everything is stock with the software.

I was asking if any mic could be better than what I am working with because they are entry-level microphones, and if I can get a very noticeable improvement with a 102 or something less expensive
 
I would find it extremel;y hard to recommend anyting based on the amount of processing in the MP3.

A better way to judge would be to provide record vocals as they comne without anything on them at all, other than waht comes directly out of the interface.
 
i would find it extremel;y hard to recommend anyting based on the amount of processing in the mp3.

A better way to judge would be to provide record vocals as they comne without anything on them at all, other than waht comes directly out of the interface.

left channel the 58 2020 on the right raw
 

Attachments

  • Mixdownlsmm58right2020.mp3
    789.8 KB · Views: 6
I heard a shootout between the nt1 and the 102, literally the mic side to side while the person was speaking into both of them with no processing, the clarity and detail on the top end of the 102 and the fullness of the bass frequencies is miles ahead of the nt1, it sounded so smooth and rich, not too coloured either, I am almost convinced this will be my next mic as soon as I can get my hands on one, the supply chain for them is turning to poop here in Canada because of covid
 
I heard a shootout between the nt1 and the 102, literally the mic side to side while the person was speaking into both of them with no processing, the clarity and detail on the top end of the 102 and the fullness of the bass frequencies is miles ahead of the nt1, it sounded so smooth and rich, not too coloured either, I am almost convinced this will be my next mic as soon as I can get my hands on one, the supply chain for them is turning to poop here in Canada because of covid

Yeah, the TLM 102 appears to have clarity and detail at the top end because it has a wide 5dB boost centered on 10 kHz, while the response of the RØDE NT1 is essentially flat. They are very different microphones. The NT1 actually has a better bass response than the TLM 102 if the curves are to be believed.

A couple of thoughts here. In my experience, a flat microphone like an NT1 responds in a more friendly way to EQ than a microphone that already has peaks and dips in its response. Secondly, there is a lot more to how a microphone sounds than it's frequency response curve. Off-axis response and proximity effect and capsule design will make microphones with similar responses sound "different" and that will also depend on your room acoustics and source. So really, the only way to evaluate a microphone is to try it out in your room with the source that you want to record. That's why most larger studios have a big mic locker, there is no "best" microphone and a U87 is often not the best choice of microphone for a given source.

If you can't borrow mics to try out, which is tough for most people, buy used on ebay. If you don't like the mic you bought, sell it and try another, you'll probably only be out the cost of shipping. If you find some bargains, you'll slowly build a mic locker. There is some time and effort involved, but it beats buying new and being stuck with a mic you don't like, but don't want to sell at a loss.
 
I have the AT 4040 & here is a link to Acoustic Guitars AND Vocals recorded with the 4040. Let your ears decide... Steve Altonian - "Cry of the Young" - YouTube

I ALSO have a Neumann TLM 49 (A big upgrade past the TLM 102). Believe it or not that 4040 gives the Neumann a real run for it's money at 1/2 the price....I've also owned the AT 4033 which is EVEN better than the 4040 for only $100 more.

The AT's 400 series is awesome. You can go AT 4040, AT 4033 or if you can spend the $699 the AT 4050...Neumanns are GREAT, if you got the extra bucks. (I got 2) But any of those AT's will get you going at a fraction of the cost of the Nuemann...

In your budget, I would probably go with the AT 4033, as it is a step up from the 4040 & won't break the bank

Oh shoot I just saw you bought the TLM already...Good luck
 
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Yeah, the TLM 102 appears to have clarity and detail at the top end because it has a wide 5dB boost centered on 10 kHz, while the response of the RØDE NT1 is essentially flat. They are very different microphones. The NT1 actually has a better bass response than the TLM 102 if the curves are to be believed.

A couple of thoughts here. In my experience, a flat microphone like an NT1 responds in a more friendly way to EQ than a microphone that already has peaks and dips in its response. Secondly, there is a lot more to how a microphone sounds than it's frequency response curve. Off-axis response and proximity effect and capsule design will make microphones with similar responses sound "different" and that will also depend on your room acoustics and source. So really, the only way to evaluate a microphone is to try it out in your room with the source that you want to record. That's why most larger studios have a big mic locker, there is no "best" microphone and a U87 is often not the best choice of microphone for a given source.

If you can't borrow mics to try out, which is tough for most people, buy used on ebay. If you don't like the mic you bought, sell it and try another, you'll probably only be out the cost of shipping. If you find some bargains, you'll slowly build a mic locker. There is some time and effort involved, but it beats buying new and being stuck with a mic you don't like, but don't want to sell at a loss.


I love the Neumann's TLM 102's sound on my voice. Compared tothe AT2020, it is miles ahead. It has a nice tone to it, I don't know if the 4040 has that sonic character to it, I never used it. The Neumann was 300 more, at that price, my voice sounds so much better and I couldn't be happier. I mean of the 4033 is 100 more than the 4040,it is pretty much in the same price point as the neumann.
 
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