Utter novice - Wider frequency response needed for super low bass?

molassascookie

New member
I am a bass singer who's looking to get into voice acting and possibly starting an a cappella group. I was looking at microphones and saw that for most high-quality voice mics, the lowest frequency response is usually 40hz, or just below a piano E1, which is the lowest note of a string double bass.

However, I employ the same technique that singers like Tim Foust use to get lower than an E1 (the strongest example is the D1 he sings in Home Free's cover of Honey I'm Good by Andy Grammer on Youtube, a few seconds into the bass line at 2:30).

So my question is, do I need to find a mic with a lower frequency response than 40hz in order to pick up notes like this, or will the natural overtones create a sound that is just as deep?
 
I am a bass singer who's looking to get into voice acting and possibly starting an a cappella group. I was looking at microphones and saw that for most high-quality voice mics, the lowest frequency response is usually 40hz, or just below a piano E1, which is the lowest note of a string double bass.

However, I employ the same technique that singers like Tim Foust use to get lower than an E1 (the strongest example is the D1 he sings in Home Free's cover of Honey I'm Good by Andy Grammer on Youtube, a few seconds into the bass line at 2:30).

So my question is, do I need to find a mic with a lower frequency response than 40hz in order to pick up notes like this, or will the natural overtones create a sound that is just as deep?

dunno
you will get overtones but whether it will sound bassy enough is tbd
or more accurately you will get 3 of the four voice resonance peaks okay just not the fundamental bass
unless you overload the mike you should not get harmonics being created

look at mike freq responses
you might find an affordable one that you could eq to do the job

or you could use one with proximity effect and get as close as possible
i used a cheap pc crystal? mike that was virtually in my mouth to get good low sounding voice

how does tim foust do it? vocal fry or some other method ?
 
dunno
you will get overtones but whether it will sound bassy enough is tbd
or more accurately you will get 3 of the four voice resonance peaks okay just not the fundamental bass
unless you overload the mike you should not get harmonics being created

look at mike freq responses
you might find an affordable one that you could eq to do the job

or you could use one with proximity effect and get as close as possible
i used a cheap pc crystal? mike that was virtually in my mouth to get good low sounding voice

how does tim foust do it? vocal fry or some other method ?

Tim Foust uses what is called "firebreathing" which is basically just growling with only the false vocal folds. It sounds like somebody's trying to summon a demon normally, but with a microphone and a subwoofer it shakes stadiums.

I have used basic mics before, and yeah you always have to eat the thing to get good bass to come out of it, but I have only ever heard air as a response to the lowest notes, telling me that the frequency response wasn't low enough. Apparently 40hz is actually pretty good for a normal mic and I'm only finding ones that are over $250 that go down lower, most of which go down to 20hz, which is the lower limit of human hearing
 
Even the average kick drum mic will start to roll off at around 40hz but that just means it wont be as loud as the higher frequencies-not that the lower ones are disappearing or not being picked up. In order to get that much low bass reproduced its going to take up so much sonic space that you would have to pull the kick and bass into the background anyway. I would just get an ATM250 and eq to taste. I can tell you from experience that almost all systems aren't going to reproduce E1 anyway. You need a pretty big driver(10" at least IMHO) and a lot of power. Use the harmonics and just a bit of the sub and you'll probably get better results
 
Tim Foust uses what is called "firebreathing" which is basically just growling with only the false vocal folds. It sounds like somebody's trying to summon a demon normally, but with a microphone and a subwoofer it shakes stadiums.

I have used basic mics before, and yeah you always have to eat the thing to get good bass to come out of it, but I have only ever heard air as a response to the lowest notes, telling me that the frequency response wasn't low enough. Apparently 40hz is actually pretty good for a normal mic and I'm only finding ones that are over $250 that go down lower, most of which go down to 20hz, which is the lower limit of human hearing


real bass in a mike will be expensive for sure

do check the actual curves as many advertise wide ranges of mikes with way too much db deviation to sucker buyers into thinking they are better

that said you might find a specialised type mike that can go lower but lacks the high end.
although most are designed for more average people not the few extremes on the bass

i listened to faust and his group sing a song on utoob but my pc speakers could not hear him do any bass
so you might want to reconsider how important this is if you are just going to make cds or mp3s
of course if you are going live then you would want to be able to have the sound system play that low
 
How about a D112? I don't think it would be very useful as a VO mic though. Scrub through to 03:55, if this isn't your kind of music.
youtube.com/watch?v=BrnuSuE-TLc
I've never run a freq meter on the bass singers part. But he hits a some notes, in his bass riffs, that I can only do in the morning, before coffee.

Then there is always J.D. Sumner, of the Stamps (Elvis), who used a EV RE-20 for his G0-A4 voice.
youtube.com/watch?v=EgcSbZjOgF8
Dale
 
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Have you tried plugging your mic into a channel set and altering your voice that way? You can certainly add voice that way.

Not cheap though. A 286's will knock you back over £150. Just an idea.
 
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I think you just need to try some because they don’t just stop at X Hertz they start to tail off and with eq I suspect there isn’t a problem
 
I think you just need to try some because they don’t just stop at X Hertz they start to tail off and with eq I suspect there isn’t a problem

i would look at specs instead of just trying them at random
then after checking their low end do try them if you can find anyplace that will let you do that
most will refuse returns on mikes for health reasons but you might be able to rent some to try


this one is only down 5dB at 20cps
and is quite affordable
our church singer who was in the business uses this and also does FOH mixing and suggested it for our church to use

http://www.mxlmics.com/microphones/studio/990/images/polar-pattern.gif
mike is mxl 990
 
I am a bass singer who's looking to get into voice acting and possibly starting an a cappella group. I was looking at microphones and saw that for most high-quality voice mics, the lowest frequency response is usually 40hz, or just below a piano E1, which is the lowest note of a string double bass.

However, I employ the same technique that singers like Tim Foust use to get lower than an E1 (the strongest example is the D1 he sings in Home Free's cover of Honey I'm Good by Andy Grammer on Youtube, a few seconds into the bass line at 2:30).

So my question is, do I need to find a mic with a lower frequency response than 40hz in order to pick up notes like this, or will the natural overtones create a sound that is just as deep?

Here is page with a plot for a typical 'rolled off vocal mic -but showing the actual proximity effect bass boosts at the close distances we actually use them. Still +many dB down there..
They're rolled off so it won't be a complete unbalanced mess.

Also consider; Do you really want to emulate (create) the sound effect of a voice with a strong fundamental of 'a low E'?

There's this thing of 'image size'. Things have -well, 'natural' places in a mix. I.e. it's one thing to have the chordal' throat overtones of notes originating from down there.. But a strong fundamental..?

The listener's image of 'your lips around my ear..
:listeningmusic:

Microphone Characteristics Vital To Know For Sound Reinforcement - Page 4 of 4 - ProSoundWeb
 
..this one is only down 5dB at 20cps
and is quite affordable
our church singer who was in the business uses this and also does FOH mixing and suggested it for our church to use

http://www.mxlmics.com/microphones/studio/990/images/polar-pattern.gif
mike is mxl 990

So... and now the engineer has to filter and correct the response even more for a usable balance, and image size.

add..
Consider; the rumble/artifacts, let alone 'pop filtering issues, of a mic like that -hand held or otherwise.
 
So... and now the engineer has to filter and correct the response even more for a usable balance, and image size.

add..
Consider; the rumble/artifacts, let alone 'pop filtering issues, of a mic like that -hand held or otherwise.

the only thing necessary is to eq the low end a little differently than before
 
the only thing necessary is to eq the low end a little differently than before

I.e.. Get rid of all the excessive and problematic low end..

Ever touch mics with full response down there?
May as well use a QTC-1. No handling noise, no provimity effect, less 'pop sensitivity..
But again. Why?
 
I.e.. Get rid of all the excessive and problematic low end..

Ever touch mics with full response down there?
May as well use a QTC-1. No handling noise, no provimity effect, less 'pop sensitivity..
But again. Why?

to give the client what he asked for which in this case is a very low bass note.

ask him why he really needs that.
 
Most large diaphragm mics can manage bass - voice, electric and acoustic bass, pipe organs and amplified synth sounds really well. Even U87s lose 5dB by the time they're below what we can properly hear. This simply doesn't make them poor on bass, and that MXL has a drop too - in this case, around 3dB. You can so easily make up this gain if you want, but there's really no need as bass is potent in quantity. You seem to have two real world choices. A large diaphragm condenser of some kind, or a dynamic specially designed for bass - and again, there are quite a few.

I'm a little surprised by the low voice range quoted. The lowest note typically seen for bass singers is the same as the bass guitar - the bottom E which is 41Hz, a 5 string bass, with the bottom B comes in at 31Hz, and I can record that successfully with dozens of microphones.
 
I googled a few random mics, and one stood out (though I admit I spent 3 minutes on this exercise). Warm Audio WA-87, a "clone" of the famous Neumann U87, goes pretty low. Warm's frequency chart shows it going all the way to 20hz, the lowest frequency of human hearing.

In omni mode, it's down maybe 3dB at 20 hz. Not bad. In cardiod mode, which most people use for vocals, it's down maybe 5 dB at 20 hz.

The fact is, though, that in cardiod there will be a boost to the lowest frequencies due to "proximity effect" that will probably more than make up for that drop.
 
Come on folks - we're being silly.
A bass (/beɪs/ BAYSS) is a type of classical male singing voice and has the lowest vocal range of all voice types. According to The New Grove Dictionary of Opera, a bass is typically classified as having a vocal range extending from around the second E below middle C to the E above middle C (i.e., E2–E4).

We don't worry about pianos at the bass end do we? They're lower than a voice. I really think we're making the proverbial mountain/molehill I=out of this one. Any decent condenser will record bass vocal range, and Lee Marvin managed to get in the charts with his voice, that recorded fine, but also reproduced fine on quite average systems. Willard White also recorded well, in contemporary recordings, and of course history has plenty of ancient recordings of bass singers.
 
To inject a little experimental "skyence" here?

Attached is a spectrum of a clip from the YT vid the OP mentioned, a truly awful recording.

But you can see that most of the energy (first 30 secs or so) is around 100Hz, bit of a lower blip around 50Hz and a wee bump around 40Hz on the right hand channel.

The odd thing is that singer responsible for the bass notes is on the right but his sound comes out of my left can! The sound also does NOT move with him.

But, as I say, crap recording.

Dave.
 

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