[SOLVED] UK/European equivalent to Electrovoice RE20?

DJGJUK

New member
Hi,

In my home radio production studio I have a trusty Audio Technica AT2035 condenser which I absolutely *love* for it's quality and the detail in my voice which it picks up. The only problem is - yes, you guessed it - it picks up a lot of outside noise as it's a condenser.

Through research, I know that the RE20 dynamic mic is considered standard in many US radio stations and that it offers condenser-like quality. Also, although still quite pricey, it's relatively much cheaper than the mics used at many UK radio stations (I'm thinking Neumann in particular).

So, as I'm seeking a dynamic mic with condenser-like qualities, should I just bite the bullet (and budget) and go for an RE20 from the States? Or are there any other - maybe less expensive - dynamics that folk would recommend? (I did try the Rode Procaster and found it wasn't for me). BTW, I run my mics through a dbx286s.

As always, any thoughts/advice would be much appreciated. :)
 
Well I have an EV RE320 that's a bit cheaper and could fit the bill - however, this 'picks up a lot of noise' thing is usually wrong. We actually talked about this a while back and the physics suggest the idea is rubbish, but practically they do seem to do this. From memory the feeling was (with no proof of course) that very weak sound pressure fails to move the mass of the mic capsule in a dynamic like it does against the very thin and light diaphragm in a condenser. My own experiments with all my mics seemed to show that my favourite condensers ALL let the background noise in my recording space be recorded more than the dynamics. However - the difference was tiny. Small adjustments to the mic to sound source distance wiped out the perceived advantage of the dynamic. I have an SM7B too, and this is like the RE320 - a perfectly decent, but unexciting microphone. If you love the sound of the 2035, I'd tend to think it could be worth investing in some extra room treatment to tame the noise. I'm assuming you don't have a soundproofing problem, rather just noise in the room? Mine is a noisy fan that I can't fix.
 
Try working closer to the AT2035 and engage the low-cut filter switch to reduce the low end response (unless you like the bassy 'proximity effect' on your voice). You'll be able to lower the gain on the preamp which will lessen how much of the ambient room sound/noise gets picked up.
 
Well I have an EV RE320 that's a bit cheaper and could fit the bill - however, this 'picks up a lot of noise' thing is usually wrong. We actually talked about this a while back and the physics suggest the idea is rubbish, but practically they do seem to do this. From memory the feeling was (with no proof of course) that very weak sound pressure fails to move the mass of the mic capsule in a dynamic like it does against the very thin and light diaphragm in a condenser. My own experiments with all my mics seemed to show that my favourite condensers ALL let the background noise in my recording space be recorded more than the dynamics. However - the difference was tiny. Small adjustments to the mic to sound source distance wiped out the perceived advantage of the dynamic. I have an SM7B too, and this is like the RE320 - a perfectly decent, but unexciting microphone. If you love the sound of the 2035, I'd tend to think it could be worth investing in some extra room treatment to tame the noise. I'm assuming you don't have a soundproofing problem, rather just noise in the room? Mine is a noisy fan that I can't fix.

Thanks very much for your response, Rob - very interesting indeed. The noise is actually from both inside and outside as my studio is not properly soundproofed (although it is treated to absorb sound reflection). Interestingly, I was reading recently about a presenter on a national UK station who broadcasts from his farm using a condenser and all manner of noises are picked up! I've taken on board what you and arcaxis have said and it looks likely that I will return to using my AT2035. Many thanks again.
 
Try working closer to the AT2035 and engage the low-cut filter switch to reduce the low end response (unless you like the bassy 'proximity effect' on your voice). You'll be able to lower the gain on the preamp which will lessen how much of the ambient room sound/noise gets picked up.

That's very helpful, arcaxis - many thanks. As you'll see from my response to rob above, I've taken on board what you've said and will most likely return to using my AT2035 - I do love its sound! Perhaps I was also suffering from a mild case of GAS?! Many thanks again.
 
I have to admit that I use the condenser because I like the sound, and have to remind myself that the tiny bit of noise I can hear is probably just a product of today's excellent dynamic range, and is never noticed in the finished product.
 
Try working closer to the AT2035 and engage the low-cut filter switch to reduce the low end response (unless you like the bassy 'proximity effect' on your voice). You'll be able to lower the gain on the preamp which will lessen how much of the ambient room sound/noise gets picked up.

Quite ^ And the mic also has a high sensitivity of -33dB/22mV/Pa and that is like having an extra 20dB+ of gain over an SM58 that you cannot turn off!

Many interfaces do not go lower than 10dB of pre amp gain and so an XLR attenuator could work to bring the whole mic/pre sensitivity in line with a dynamic.

Dave.
 
I have to admit that I use the condenser because I like the sound, and have to remind myself that the tiny bit of noise I can hear is probably just a product of today's excellent dynamic range, and is never noticed in the finished product.

I like your philosophy, Rob!
 
Quite ^ And the mic also has a high sensitivity of -33dB/22mV/Pa and that is like having an extra 20dB+ of gain over an SM58 that you cannot turn off!

Many interfaces do not go lower than 10dB of pre amp gain and so an XLR attenuator could work to bring the whole mic/pre sensitivity in line with a dynamic.

Dave.

Many thanks for that, Dave - very useful. I confess that, until now, I'd never heard of XLR attenuators but will explore further (and it looks like they're a lot cheaper than a new mic!). Thanks again!
 
Warning Will Robinson!
Take great care with XLR pads. They're really simple - usually just 3 resistors in an XLR male to female barrel - but - most mess up your phantom power to the mic. Some have feedthrough power, but most don't. I must admit that I have never needed attenuation on my condensers from speech - the gain controls on all my kit cope with lips to grill speech, and singing as long as they're not belters. With the interface on their lowest settings all mine can even manage things like radio mic receivers and even line level XLR without peaking.
 
Quite ^ And the mic also has a high sensitivity of -33dB/22mV/Pa and that is like having an extra 20dB+ of gain over an SM58 that you cannot turn off!

Many interfaces do not go lower than 10dB of pre amp gain and so an XLR attenuator could work to bring the whole mic/pre sensitivity in line with a dynamic.

Fortunately the Dbx box that the OP is using has a more sensible gain range. The big danger is using too many of its facilities on the way into the computer. Too much compression will bring out any background noises so it would be much safer to just use the Dbx as a preamp and process afterwards if needed.
 
Many thanks for that, Dave - very useful. I confess that, until now, I'd never heard of XLR attenuators but will explore further (and it looks like they're a lot cheaper than a new mic!). Thanks again!

If I'm not mistaken your AT2035 has a -10dB PAD switch on it to cut the signal. No need for an extra attenuator.
 
Warning Will Robinson!
Take great care with XLR pads. They're really simple - usually just 3 resistors in an XLR male to female barrel - but - most mess up your phantom power to the mic. Some have feedthrough power, but most don't. I must admit that I have never needed attenuation on my condensers from speech - the gain controls on all my kit cope with lips to grill speech, and singing as long as they're not belters. With the interface on their lowest settings all mine can even manage things like radio mic receivers and even line level XLR without peaking.

Thank you, Rob!
 
Fortunately the Dbx box that the OP is using has a more sensible gain range. The big danger is using too many of its facilities on the way into the computer. Too much compression will bring out any background noises so it would be much safer to just use the Dbx as a preamp and process afterwards if needed.

Thank you very much, James. I have found the noise gate on the dbx very helpful, but when I reconnect the AT I will now relook at - and experiment with - the compressor settings.
 
If I'm not mistaken your AT2035 has a -10dB PAD switch on it to cut the signal. No need for an extra attenuator.

You're absolutely correct! Thank you very much for pointing that out (the AT is still in its box so I double checked online!)
 
Warning Will Robinson!
Take great care with XLR pads. They're really simple - usually just 3 resistors in an XLR male to female barrel - but - most mess up your phantom power to the mic. Some have feedthrough power, but most don't. I must admit that I have never needed attenuation on my condensers from speech - the gain controls on all my kit cope with lips to grill speech, and singing as long as they're not belters. With the interface on their lowest settings all mine can even manage things like radio mic receivers and even line level XLR without peaking.

Whilst I agree Rob that the series elements of a pad will reduce phantom power to soem extent they are usually in the range of 470 -510 Ohms and thus do not add much to the 6k8s already in the line. The terminating resistor is just in parallel with the source and there will be additional parallel Rs inside the mic, often another 6k8 pair.
The attenuators to steer clear of are the 4R type where the load pair are tied to pin 1 and therefore DO attenuate the DC.

The AT mic in anycase has a wide voltage range and draws a modest 3.8mA. And as the OP said, the pads are cheap enough so give one a go. Never a bad thing to have in the gig bag (along with a polarity flipper).

Dave.
 
Many thanks to everyone for your really helpful advice - I very much appreciate you taking the time to respond. All things considered, I think I'll be going back to my AT2035!
 
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