Shure Beta87a or SM7b for unsoundproofed singing???

A

aeross60

New member
Hey Guys,

I need a little help with selecting a mic for singing in my little home studio which cannot be soundproofed. It just sheetrock and a tile floor and lots of furniture so there is no echo that I can hear. The only things that I need to mic are the vocals and maybe an acoustic guitar. I will use the GNX4 to record directly all other instruments. I have looked at the Shure Beta87a but I am concerned that outside noise will bleed into the recording. For that reason I am also looking at the Shure SM7b. I will be plugging the mic into my Digitech GNX4 Guitar Station which does have phantom power if needed. The Shure support staff is giving me mixed signals about using the SM7b for singing (as opposed to broadcasting) and using the Beta87a for recording. Any suggestions?

Thanks!
 
The SM7 is a great vocal mic on many voices It has been selected so often over other more expensive vocal mics in my recording projects that I finally bought a second one. It is also great on acoustic and electric guitars.

The main issue is whether your pre will provide enough gain. It's marvelously inefficient in that respect. Ideally, you will want to have at least 54db of clean gain and 60db would be better (of course more is better still). If you are going to use it on finger-picked guitars, I'd want 60db of clean gain available. I usually use it with my API or A-Designs P-1 pres. Works OK with an RNP as well as long as you are not trying to record whispers. If your pre doesn't have enough gain and you have a compressor available to you, you may be able to also use the make up gain in the comp. Not ideal, but workable. No phantom requirements as it is a dynamic mic.
 
pohaku said:
The SM7 is a great vocal mic on many voices It has been selected so often over other more expensive vocal mics in my recording projects that I finally bought a second one. It is also great on acoustic and electric guitars.

The main issue is whether your pre will provide enough gain. It's marvelously inefficient in that respect. Ideally, you will want to have at least 54db of clean gain and 60db would be better (of course more is better still). If you are going to use it on finger-picked guitars, I'd want 60db of clean gain available. I usually use it with my API or A-Designs P-1 pres. Works OK with an RNP as well as long as you are not trying to record whispers. If your pre doesn't have enough gain and you have a compressor available to you, you may be able to also use the make up gain in the comp. Not ideal, but workable. No phantom requirements as it is a dynamic mic.
Click to expand...

So you use it on acoustic? I thought that was about the only thing it couldn't do. How do you set it up for that?
 
aeross60 said:
Hey Guys,

I need a little help with selecting a mic for singing in my little home studio which cannot be soundproofed. It just sheetrock and a tile floor and lots of furniture so there is no echo that I can hear. The only things that I need to mic are the vocals and maybe an acoustic guitar. I will use the GNX4 to record directly all other instruments. I have looked at the Shure Beta87a but I am concerned that outside noise will bleed into the recording. For that reason I am also looking at the Shure SM7b. I will be plugging the mic into my Digitech GNX4 Guitar Station which does have phantom power if needed. The Shure support staff is giving me mixed signals about using the SM7b for singing (as opposed to broadcasting) and using the Beta87a for recording. Any suggestions?

Thanks!
Click to expand...


Are you really sure that your room has no ambience?? what happens when you clap your hands; any direct reflections? It's not such an issue if your happy with the sound, but if you ever try to compress it or want to change the ambience to mix with other tracks, it'll come back to haunt ya. :mad:

If you can't treat the room at all then find a mic that really will really focus on the close sound in front of it. I believe this is why puhako is steering you to a dynamic as oppossed to a condenser. And yes, you will defanitley need to have a good pre w/ lots of gain w/ the 7b.

good luck! :D
 
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If your pre has'nt got the gain, look for a condenser with the properties I mentioned above. Here's a link to a review of such a mike ( reference the comments about the distant freight train). I have no hands on w/ this paticular mike , but it is supposed to have the disireable trait of not doubling as a spying a block away mic!!!! :D


http://www.tweakheadz.com/review_of_the_maudio_solaris.htm

good luck! :D
 
More Info

Thanks for the fast replies, guys. I checked the manual and the Digitech GNX4 does NOT have the gain needed to push the SM7B :mad: . So I guess a condenser mic it will be.

Thanks for the links, I am checking them out. I'm looking at the AT3035, a large diaphragm condenser (LDC) mic, as well. Am I right to assume that I can only use these types of mics for recording? In other words, when I am not recording I cannot use the "AT3035" for singing along with background music playing over the speakers. Does this type of mic need a pop filter?

I am currently using an SM58 to record vocals and acoustic guitar. Under my 'not so great' room circumstances should I continue recording with the SM58 which is very quiet by-the-way or bite the bullet and spend the money for a LDC condenser mic? I really have no idea what to expect with a LDC mic. I am not that great of a singer, but here is a link to a song I recorded in my room with the SM58. Should I expect a better quality recording with a LDC mic considering my open room problem?

http://www.soundclick.com/andrerossell

By the way, does the LDC mic need a pop filter?

Thanks!
 
If you looked closely at the Beta 87A, did you consider the Beta 87C? I don't know much about it (I have one coming to me in the mail now, as chance would have it) -- my understanding is that it has the tighter cardioid pattern specifically to make it less susceptible to background noise.

The Beta mics are more intended for live performance than recording, I think - at least I know that's true of the 87A and 87C - I'm probably going to try to record with the 87C anyway, though.
 
notCardio said:
So you use it on acoustic? I thought that was about the only thing it couldn't do. How do you set it up for that?
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Oh, it most certainly can do acoustics. Listen to Tim O'Regan's (Jayhawks drummer) new solo album. Pretty much all the guitars and vocals are through my SM7. Placement is of course to taste, but basically towards the end of the fretboard just up from the soundhole.
 
aeross60 said:
Thanks for the fast replies, guys. I checked the manual and the Digitech GNX4 does NOT have the gain needed to push the SM7B :mad: . So I guess a condenser mic it will be.
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...you may also want to check out the Karma K6 Phantom Powered Ribbon Mic...characteristics are more similar to a dynamic (less likely to pick up unwanted ambient room noise) and the phantom-powered feature makes it useable with just about any mic pre...my K6 gets alot of use (right behind my SM7B)...also, Karma offers a free trial period so you can demo it in your recording environment...
http://karmaaudio.com/
 
kidvybes said:
...you may also want to check out the Karma K6 Phantom Powered Ribbon Mic...characteristics are more similar to a dynamic (less likely to pick up unwanted ambient room noise) and the phantom-powered feature makes it useable with just about any mic pre...my K6 gets alot of use (right behind my SM7B)...also, Karma offers a free trial period so you can demo it in your recording environment...
http://karmaaudio.com/
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What Dennis said. :) Happy Thanksgiving and good luck.
 
kidvybes said:
...you may also want to check out the Karma K6 Phantom Powered Ribbon Mic...characteristics are more similar to a dynamic (less likely to pick up unwanted ambient room noise) and the phantom-powered feature makes it useable with just about any mic pre...my K6 gets alot of use (right behind my SM7B)...also, Karma offers a free trial period so you can demo it in your recording environment...
http://karmaaudio.com/
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Hey Kid;
Can you give us a mini-review on the Karma?? Also could you reccomend the best way for a home user to keep the room sound out of the other side of the 8-pattern???? ( or is it not an issue at all with that mic?? )

(sorry if that's a dumb question because you already touched on it in your post above..... maybe you could elaborate on that point a little more??)

I'm looking for something different for my Baritone vocals and this could be "the" mic! +

That try before you buy is a great Idea............. With all these places refusing to exchange or return mics these days, mic buys are a little more worrysome!!

Thanks :D
 
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flatfinger said:
If your pre has'nt got the gain, look for a condenser with the properties I mentioned above. Here's a link to a review of such a mike ( reference the comments about the distant freight train). I have no hands on w/ this paticular mike , but it is supposed to have the disireable trait of not doubling as a spying a block away mic!!!! :D


http://www.tweakheadz.com/review_of_the_maudio_solaris.htm

good luck! :D
Click to expand...

I listened to the song featuring the Karma K6 and it sounds great.

I have a question concerning GAIN: The way I understand it, the closer to the mic I sing, say three inches, the less gain needed. So if less gain is required does that mean less background noise well be heard? For example, will a fish tank water-pump or dishwasher twenty-five feet away not be picked up by the mic if I sing close to the mic and therefore need less gain. Under the same conditions mentioned above, my SM58 does not pick up any background sounds at a gain level required for a decent recording. Maybe I shouldn't use the SM58 mic as a reference but it's the only reference I have.

Sweetwater is recommending the AT3035 mic. Anybody out there have any experience with the sensitivity of that mic?

thanks!
 
If you want to get rid of as much room noise as possible, I'd say get a more focused directional mic, like a hypercardioid condenser. I use a Rode NT3 for vocals, and it is a little bright, but I've worked around it, and it knocks out everything you would otherwise hear in the background. Just an alternative potential, poke around for some info on hypercards...
 
antichef said:
If you looked closely at the Beta 87A, did you consider the Beta 87C? I don't know much about it (I have one coming to me in the mail now, as chance would have it) -- my understanding is that it has the tighter cardioid pattern specifically to make it less susceptible to background noise.

The Beta mics are more intended for live performance than recording, I think - at least I know that's true of the 87A and 87C - I'm probably going to try to record with the 87C anyway, though.
Click to expand...

After a lot of going back and forth I think I am going to go with the SHURE Beta 87C. It's not a perfect scenario and it might not work, but it seems to be the closest fit to my room/studio situation. ANITCHEF, Get you get your Beta 87C yet? Please let me know how it works out for you in your studio and thanks for the tip concerning the Beta 87 "C" versus the "A" model.

So unless I hear "NO! NO! don't do it! You' re making a big mistake." I'm heading down that road. The Beta 87C has got to be better than my SM58 for recording vocals, right? Thanks for all the advise so far. I am looking into all leads.

Thanks!
 
Just throwing you a last minute curve here.....

Why do you want the Beta version of this mic? You could get the same sound and the same tight cardioid pattern (sorry cusebassman, but cardioid is tighter and more directional than hypercardioid) without the brash and edgy sound that I think the Beta mics have by getting the SM86 instead. And it's about $80 bucks cheaper.

I have never been able to hear the difference between the 86 and the 87, but I can definitely hear the diference between the regular and the beta. Beta's are intended for live stage, that's why they have a slightly hotter and more present signal, which is not necessarily good for recording. I got rid of all my Beta and N-Dym mics for that reason.
 
soundchaser59 said:
Just throwing you a last minute curve here.....

Why do you want the Beta version of this mic? You could get the same sound and the same tight cardioid pattern (sorry cusebassman, but cardioid is tighter and more directional than hypercardioid) without the brash and edgy sound that I think the Beta mics have by getting the SM86 instead. And it's about $80 bucks cheaper.

I have never been able to hear the difference between the 86 and the 87, but I can definitely hear the diference between the regular and the beta. Beta's are intended for live stage, that's why they have a slightly hotter and more present signal, which is not necessarily good for recording. I got rid of all my Beta and N-Dym mics for that reason.
Click to expand...

I am comparing frequency charts right now that I believe show that the Beta 87C boost after 2K is almost half that of the SM86. So the Beta 87c is a little flatter. The flatter the better for recording, right?
 
I think you are right about the SM86 over the Beta 87

soundchaser59 said:
Just throwing you a last minute curve here.....

Why do you want the Beta version of this mic? You could get the same sound and the same tight cardioid pattern (sorry cusebassman, but cardioid is tighter and more directional than hypercardioid) without the brash and edgy sound that I think the Beta mics have by getting the SM86 instead. And it's about $80 bucks cheaper.

I have never been able to hear the difference between the 86 and the 87, but I can definitely hear the diference between the regular and the beta. Beta's are intended for live stage, that's why they have a slightly hotter and more present signal, which is not necessarily good for recording. I got rid of all my Beta and N-Dym mics for that reason.
Click to expand...

I am going to give the SM86 a try in my little DAW recording studio and I will report back with my results. I am hoping it will not be as hot on the highs as the Beta 87. At least, it's got to be better sounding than my SM58 on vocals.

Thanks Everyone!
 
pohaku said:
Oh, it most certainly can do acoustics. Listen to Tim O'Regan's (Jayhawks drummer) new solo album. Pretty much all the guitars and vocals are through my SM7. Placement is of course to taste, but basically towards the end of the fretboard just up from the soundhole.
Click to expand...

wow. i'da never thought to put it on acoustic either. got a job this weekend i'll try it on. great tip.

Mike
 
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