Replace my actual mic

R

Ramifn

New member
Hello everyone!

I use Garageband with my AT2020 USB mic. My focus is vocals I really want them to sound professional
I want the songs that I record to get a more professional studio sound, so I was thinking about buying another mic (although in more or less the same range of price as the At2020usb) I'm kinda of a basic guy because I don't know much about production, that's why I use Garageband and a USB mic (cause it simplifies things).

What mic do you think I should get? (If it's USB better, cause I don't have the knowledge to work out everything else that I need to record in my computer. Although if it's not usb, what do I need in order to make it work?)

Or do you think that I don't get a HQ studio sound because my knowledge in production is basic, hence, I am not taking what I have to its limits?

Thank you very much for your time! I appreciate it! Every piece of advice is so welcomed!
 
I fear your plan isn't likely to result in a "professional" sound for a number of reasons.

First, although certain mics suit certain voices better, there are no huge quality jumps available in the economy end of the market. The AT2020 is as good as any--to get a significantly better mic you have to spend significantly more money.

Second, the USB mic route is a dead end. By definition, the mic pre amp and A to D converter built into an actual mic is never going to do the best job.

Third, beyond the mic (and pre amp), professional quality has a lot to do with the room you're using for recording. You don't give any details but professional studios are as much about acoustics as gear.

Finally, as you've already guessed, getting the best results out of recording and mixing is as much about your own knowledge and experience as the gear you use. Even the most expensive set up doesn't have an automatic "make it sound good" plug in!
 
I'll try to explain this as plain as I can.

Getting something to sound professional has to do with the entire recording chain. Starting with the performer and the room he's in, then the microphone, to the preamp, to the interface, effects etc. etc.

A pro mic, a pro preamp, a pro interface, a pro compressor, a pro reverb, they all start at about a $1000 to $2500 a piece, or more.

Like Bobbsy said; a USB mic is a mic, a preamp and an interface (converter) in one, for a $100. So it's like comparing a rubber boat to a cruise ship.
 
chrisghost said:
Like Bobbsy said; a USB mic is a mic, a preamp and an interface (converter) in one, for a $100. So it's like comparing a rubber boat to a cruise ship.
Click to expand...

....and without experience and talent, even that cruise ship can be driven by a certain Italian captain.

Gawd, I love metaphors!

(and this one is even accurate!)
 
Nothing here to add, both have nailed it. I would say you need to get a good sounding room, without that theres no way your recordings will improve. One you do it you will find a big difference and perhaps you will stop thinking about a new mic. If you want to step up get an audio interface, even a cheap one and get a regular mic (you could even buy the at2020 but without usb out). With these two things and lots of practice youll be on your way.

And welcome to the forum Ramifn!
 
It's the same as any modern digital phenomenon. Anyone can do; It's just they can't do it well.

I can photoshop a picture or edit a movie but it will suck.

Without knowledge of what you're doing it's a waste of time, but don't let that discourage you. It just means go and read some books until you understand what you need yourself.

Anyone on here can say you need X,Y and Z but that's great until it arrives and they have to tell you how to plug it all in.
Then that's great until they have to tell you how to record arm your tracks......it goes on.

Read the stickies on here, tweakz guide, stuff like that.

I don't mean to sound like a prick, It's just there's nothing more annoying (for you) than spending all your money then realising a few months later that you should have bought something else.
 
Steenamaroo said:
It's the same as any modern digital phenomenon. Anyone can do; It's just they can't do it well.

I can photoshop a picture or edit a movie but it will suck.

Without knowledge of what you're doing it's a waste of time, but don't let that discourage you. It just means go and read some books until you understand what you need yourself.

Anyone on here can say you need X,Y and Z but that's great until it arrives and they have to tell you how to plug it all in.
Then that's great until they have to tell you how to record arm your tracks......it goes on.

Read the stickies on here, tweakz guide, stuff like that.

I don't mean to sound like a prick, It's just there's nothing more annoying (for you) than spending all your money then realising a few months later that you should have bought something else.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's true, you have to learn how to work the equipment and train your ears as well, and that isn't something you can learn in a week.

If you put in all that cash you have to be sure you're truely commited.
 
Guys, I REALLY thank you a lot, for all your answers!
And I really understand what you say.

Another question, what mic is this?

This is a video from YT: /watch?v=R6Y4XApnyG8 (sorry I still don't have enough posts to post urls)

So for that microphone I need a pre-amp, (the mic will be plugged in the pre amp, and the latter into the computer (usb or what?))
I've seen that mic a lot in YT vids, so I wanted to ask you about it

I guess Eq, compression, reverb, echo, etc. have a lot to do with the final vocal sound gotten. Is it out somewhere presets/values that I can write in the program? Sorry if I didn't explain myself well, I mean having values of compression, eq and those effects that are commonly used in studio vocals so I can type them in and get a similar sound. ?

Thank you very much!
 
Bobbsy said:
By definition, the mic pre amp and A to D converter built into an actual mic is never going to do the best job.
Click to expand...

I'll be sure to mention that to Neumann and Schoeps.

OP, "by definition", I don't think any of the people on this thread have actually designed a mic or A/D converter, or especially a mic with an A/D converter. There are several good reasons why a converter in a mic is actually the best solution. Now, is the AT2020USB the perfect realization of those principles? Maybe not, but AT is a company with really good engineering, so I'm willing to bet your mic is not the limiting factor in your recordings. Every AT product I've used--and I've used a bunch--is fully capable of a professional recording (OK, not including their bargain-basement consumer stuff, but in the 20 series, some of the Pro line, and up, definitely).

Learn how to properly use a mic when recording vocals. Learn proper vocal technique. Learn common vocal production techniques (doubling, compression, for example, although techniques vary by style). Do all that, then post a track in the mp3 clinic, and none of these Luddites will ever know you used a *shudder* USB mic.
 
Thats an AKG 414, theyre quite expensive (around a thousand bucks). Ok im a beggonernlike you, but ive had some experience with these, so i think i can give you some advice.

First, what you need is not a preamp, but an audio interface. They have built in preamps and will do the job. What they do is transform your analog input (sound) into digital information your computer understands.

And from my experience I can tell you what you need right now is not "effects settings". There are no settings that will work withbevery song and every sound source.

What you need is to learn by yourself. Start by hearing tonyour room, I found out that is the thing that makes recordings sound bad most of the times. Once you learn the sound of your room, try to modify it, make it sound better. Then try experimenting yourself. Try different mic positions, effects settings, etc. Dont ask for settings, what you need the most is TRAIN YOUR EARS. That is the most difficult part, but the most important. You'll learn what works and what doesnt, you will know what will sound best for a specific song and sound surce

Its really hard, but it is worth it!
 
OP, find yourself a plugin that emulates an old classic compressor, the LA2A. There should be some freebies out there although I don't collect plugins so I can't make a specific recommendation.

Many of the compression parameters are fixed in an LA2A which makes your job easy--fully parametric compressors have lots of confusing knobs. The LA2A has two knobs--one is peak reduction, one is makeup gain (to add overall level reduced by the compressor), and then it has a switch between "compress" and "limit". Set the switch on compress, then crank up/down the peak reduction until you get a sound you like. Turn up the gain knob if you need to get the track level back up. It's like the brownie mix of compressors, the kind with the syrup packet and chocolate chips . . . mmmmm, brownies :)
 
mshilarious said:
I'll be sure to mention that to Neumann and Schoeps.

OP, "by definition", I don't think any of the people on this thread have actually designed a mic or A/D converter, or especially a mic with an A/D converter. There are several good reasons why a converter in a mic is actually the best solution.
Click to expand...

Absolute rubbish.

Even if you want to consider the Neumann and Schoeps digital mics (and you know full well that's NOT the sort of thing we're talking about here) there are also darn good reasons why it's better to go the analogue mic-pre amp-A to D route. A couple of these are:

1. You don't need to buy a new high quality pre amp and high quality A to D with every single mic.

2. You can mix and match pre amps to achieve the sound you want (warmth vs. clarity, EQ curve, etc.) rather than the one the mic manufacturer thinks is best.

Now, I actually agree with the rest of what you say. The mic itself ISN'T the limiting factor and I (and several others) went on to say that. I went farther and said that buying a new mic, especially in the same price range, would be a waste of money.

However, comments such yours above when aimed at somebody who is clearly a beginner are just confusing and unhelpful for the poor guy. You and I both know that going the USB mic route will be a self-limiting dead end, especially at the budget end of the market. Yes, you can get acceptable results from an AT2020 usb but is it (or another cheap USB mic) the best basis to start a system. Absolutely not. (And that's before we start to deal with the other issues that using a USB mic can cause--flakey drivers, monitoring via the inbuilt sound card, restricted length of USB cables, etc. etc.)
 
Bobbsy said:
Absolute rubbish.

Even if you want to consider the Neumann and Schoeps digital mics (and you know full well that's NOT the sort of thing we're talking about here) there are also darn good reasons why it's better to go the analogue mic-pre amp-A to D route. A couple of these are:

1. You don't need to buy a new high quality pre amp and high quality A to D with every single mic.
Click to expand...

How many mics do you need to record your own vocals? 12? 27? One usually works for me.

2. You can mix and match pre amps to achieve the sound you want (warmth vs. clarity, EQ curve, etc.) rather than the one the mic manufacturer thinks is best.
Click to expand...

Any preamp with an "EQ curve" is not a preamp, it's a channel strip. Or it's a POS, your choice. Research what a minimum-phase circuit is, and we'll return to the conversation of a what a preamp really needs to do. Explain when and where and why signals need to be desirably distorted (that's a different question from the min-phase one). Best of all, explain how a newbie recordist is supposed to make decisions about spending hundreds of dollars when they don't understand those factors.

Anyway, digital mics have no such thing as "preamps". They will have a buffer circuit to drive the ADC . . . which an interface must also have. What they don't need is a stage generating a useless amount of gain. "By definition", digital mics have fewer analog amp stages, which may mean better integrity of signal transmission. They also have a much shorter distance to go . . .

Read the responses by John Roberts in this thread until you grok why preamps will soon be obsolete:

Why use a mic pre at all? - Gearslutz.com


S you are the one being unhelpful, because you want him to spend money unnecessarily. His mic is fine; he just needs learning and practice.
 
I've forgotten more about audio technology than you will ever know...and my knowledge comes from a mix of formal engineering training and 40 years practical experience rather than reading an internet forum.

Read what I actually posted. I told him NOT to spend money on replacing the mic--but that, when he does spend money, another USB mic at a similar price point would be a pointless exercise.

I was also the first one to tell him to go back to basics and learn how to mix before trying to find a mic that fixes everything for him. So don't accuse me of telling him to spend money needlessly.

Confusing the poor guy with talk of theoretical advantages of $2000+ digital mics is just an ego trip trying to prove you know more than he does. It doesn't help him with his problem one bit--but plants the seed of doubt that "well, a Neuman D-01 is a good mic so maybe a Samson USB mic will fix all my problems". Oh, and then you tell him that a compressor emulator plug in will fix things. Yeah, sure.

Onto your specific points:

How many mics do you need to record vocals? One. At a time. Let me turn it around though. How many people on this forum use the same mic for every recording? As you get further into things you want to customise the style of mic for the project in hand.

Any pre amp with an EQ curve isn't a pre amp? LOL! Get real. Once people start spending 3 and 4 digit numbers for pre amps they're doing it for the low noise AND colouration being added, not because it "sounds flat". Personally, I don't think the pre amp is the right place to add colouration and I don't work that way. But a lot of people working at the top end of the market choose their mic pre amps for the specific "sound".

Finally, I won't hold my breath for the day that all mic pre amps become obsolete. Not everyone uses a single mic fed over a relatively short distance for every job.
 
Wonderful. I maintain OP doesn't need a $3K preamp nor microphone.

A lot of people at the "top end" don't have any idea what their preamp is doing; they confuse the psychoacoustic effects of various types of distortion with frequency response. Measure all their preamps, and other than maybe bandwidth limitations of transformers, if present, they are all flat in the audio spectrum. Most of them routinely fail blind tests on their own equipment. It's quite amusing to me.

You know, there is this band I guess you'd call them, got famous on Youtube, Pomplamoose I think they are called. They seem to use the same "low-end" Neumann mic, a model all those "in the know" love to pan, on pretty much every single track--and they seem to have plenty of tracks, you can see them all in their videos. I'd bet they used the same preamp or interface or whatever on every track too. If you know what you are doing that really isn't a big deal. Anyway, long story, big success, great songs, great recordings, etc. This is what can happen when you remove artificial mental limitations.

Anyway, if you'd like to talk about what you've forgotten, let's leave OP alone and head over to the thread I started; we can bicker there.
 
And I totally agree it would be foolish for the OP to replace his mic. The only point of disagreement is that, when and if (at some future point) he does decide on replacement, I firmly believe that the best investment (especially in anything other than 4 figure pricing) will be a conventional mic and separate audio interface.

Actually, there's one other point of disagreement--and that's the validity of confusing the issue by pointing out a $2000+ microphone (that, btw, outputs AES42, not quite the same thing as a $60 USB mic) to try and prove that not all USB mics are a poor compromise.
 
OK then, we mostly agree. But hey, 'digital mics', 'by definition', those were your words, you start arguing absolutes as a matter of physics and I'll argue that with you :)
 
Thanks to all of you! So I see the subject is very complex! haha :)

Can I also ask about this mics? What do you think of them? The mic I'm looking for is to record vocals, and I saw a bunch on Amazon which are more or less in the price range I want.
YT: /watch?v=IGO3GfLrFZE
(It looks similar to my at2020)

- MXL V67G Large Capsule Condenser Microphone
- MXL MXL 990 Condenser Microphone
- CAD GXL2200 Cardioid Condenser Microphone
- MMXL 990 USB Powered Condenser Microphone
- MXL 770 Cardioid Condenser Microphone
- MXL 550
- Blue Microphones Spark Condenser Microphone, Cardioid

I also heard good reviews about the Audix cx212b (although it is more expensive)

Thank you!!
 
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