[SOLVED] Powering the SM57 microphone (PC)

TCee

New member
Hello fellas! I'm a bit of an audio newbie, hopefully this knowledgeable community can help me out.

I'm going to use an SM57 for PC voice recording, so I'll need a device that accepts an XLR connection and is able to plug into the computer (AI, Mixer?). There will be some, but not all too much distance between me and the mic, so I'm looking to maintain good volume even when I'm not right up against the mic. If my research is correct, it seems like the SM57 would need +60 Gain from an Audio Interface (or preamp?), but most that I've found are around +50.

Looking to spend $100 with some flexibility. Note: not interested in a Condenser microphone.

Recommendations/advice is greatly appreciated! :)
 
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I'd offer, start from the other end of things. Good tone balance is what usually drives the choice of what mic distance. With mics like these that's to be had at around 2 to 4 inches.
If you are in a very well treated (damped/dead) room, that can be expanded a little, but the tone will also start to thin out. 'Closer keeps it dry' focused and fuller.
So as long as you are speaking/singing with a decent amount of strength.. gains won't need to be maxed out either.
 
Hello fellas! I'm a bit of an audio newbie, hopefully this knowledgeable community can help me out.

I'm going to use an SM57 for PC voice recording, so I'll need a device that accepts an XLR connection and is able to plug into the computer (AI, Mixer?). There will be some, but not all too much distance between me and the mic, so I'm looking to maintain good volume even when I'm not right up against the mic. If my research is correct, it seems like the SM57 would need +60 Gain from an Audio Interface (or preamp?), but most that I've found are around +50.

Looking to spend $100 with some flexibility. Note: not interested in a Condenser microphone.

Recommendations/advice is greatly appreciated! :)

You are fighting two "laws" at the same time here! First is one of physics, back off a microphone DESIGNED for close work and you will lose a lot of signal. Secondly, economics, if you want 60dB of low noise gain you have to pay for it. You MIGHT find an AI for $100 with that specification but I doubt it. I have discovered the Steinberg UR22 mkll is said to have 60dB in an SoS review but I can't find that figure in the handbook.

But if you are recording the mic, i.e. not live podding, the gain does not matter very much. You can record 24bits at a low level, -25dBfs say, then boost that digitally afterwards. The only noise that will come up is that of the inherent pre amp noise plus the "room" and I would bet the latter would be dominant.

What have you got against capacitor microphones?

Dave.
 
Everything [MENTION=89697]ecc83[/MENTION] said.

Don't get hung up on specs because you can make gain boosts in the mixing/post stage that should fix things, unless you're whispering, perhaps, and then you should either reconsider your mic choice or budget for an extra preamp. (I'm not sure there is a standard for gain spec, i.e., one that considers the output level, distortion, noise, et al, that makes anything you read actually comparable, anyway, if they even post one.)

Here's a slightly related video using a Focusrite 2i2 (50dB gain spec) with 3 mics. The SM57 falls in the middle of their sensitivity ratings, and all sound Ok after the gain is boosted (amount shown in the video).

YouTube

Note that the SM58 has a slightly higher sensitivity than the 57, and for voice, I'd probably choose it, if you haven't already bought something.
 
Thanks for the valuable input guys! It seems the mic distance may not be too far off from what it is designed to be, so in that sense I should be fine. I suppose it should work just fine with an AI such as the previously mentioned Focusrite or Steinberg, I'll do some more research first of course.

What have you got against capacitor microphones?
There's a lot of sound going on both inside and outside of my house, such mics would likely pick it up much easier as my room isn't soundproof or "foamed up".
 
Thanks for the valuable input guys! It seems the mic distance may not be too far off from what it is designed to be, so in that sense I should be fine. I suppose it should work just fine with an AI such as the previously mentioned Focusrite or Steinberg, I'll do some more research first of course.

There's a lot of sound going on both inside and outside of my house, such mics would likely pick it up much easier as my room isn't soundproof or "foamed up".
Well, external noises don't go away or become quieter when you choose a different mic, i.e., if the microphone is picking up the sound of your voice at -15dBFS, and there's an external noise that measures -30dBFS at the same place your mouth is with a condenser mic, what makes you think it would be or less noticeable with a dynamic mic?

Or, put maybe another way, the sound energy from any source that reaches a point in a room doesn't change because of what's located at that point. Put a sound level meter where the mic will be and measure the ambient/external noise level. Do you think the meter is going to measure something different if you put an SM57 next to it, vs. an Audio-Technica 2020? (I'm simplifying, because if the noise is below a certain level, it won't move that dynamic mic diaphragm, but it's going to have to be a big difference to not show up when boosted.)

You will really need to tackle the external noises. Not with foam, but with stuff that minimizes the entry of sounds into the space - door and window seals or heavy covering, placing the mic so its polar pattern is facing away from [unwanted] sound sources, and finally, some "real" treatment for the room - even some moving pads strategically placed would be better than foam (IMO).

P.S. You could get a large or small condenser with a -10/-20dB pad switch and have the same effect, and more versatility. Maybe something like this:
AKG P120 Large-Diaphragm Condenser Microphone | Sweetwater
AKG P170 Small-diaphragm Condenser Microphone | Sweetwater
(And get a pop filter for whatever mic you use.)
 
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Thanks for the valuable input guys! It seems the mic distance may not be too far off from what it is designed to be, so in that sense I should be fine. I suppose it should work just fine with an AI such as the previously mentioned Focusrite or Steinberg, I'll do some more research first of course.


There's a lot of sound going on both inside and outside of my house, such mics would likely pick it up much easier as my room isn't soundproof or "foamed up".

The reason dynamics such as the 57/58s give a measure of noise and room rejection is down to the much lower sensitivity and the fact that they are designed to be worked very close to the mouth, an inch, two at the most. Keith has given you one way to look at the situation but just think of the numbers?

Take a dynamic with a sensitivity of 2mV/Pa (a hot one!) you wanted 60dB of gain ok? Now replace that with a capacitor mic of 20mV/Pa, that will produce the same modulation level in the DAW for just 40dB of gain. The advantage of most cap' mics is that you get the higher sensitivity with lower overall noise than most AIs can manage at high gain. The disadvantage is that most such mics are not suited to very close working but, with a good pop screen they can be. Capacitors also give you a wider response, the classic "20 to 20, giving a "crisper" sound. That is not a criticism of dynamics. Their sound is familiar and therefore liked.

You will find on this audio game that "fair" results can be obtained from quite basic kit of modest cost..SO LONG as you don't have problems. A noisy place is a problem and often needs a bit more cash to be spent to get good results.

Dave.
 
Well, external noises don't go away or become quieter when you choose a different mic, i.e., if the microphone is picking up the sound of your voice at -15dBFS, and there's an external noise that measures -30dBFS at the same place your mouth is with a condenser mic, what makes you think it would be or less noticeable with a dynamic mic?
It does make sense that with the same pattern they would yield the same results if at the same sensitivity, I hadn't thought of it that way. I wasn't sure if there could be anything else which may separate the two types of microphones either.

The reason dynamics such as the 57/58s give a measure of noise and room rejection is down to the much lower sensitivity and the fact that they are designed to be worked very close to the mouth, an inch, two at the most. Keith has given you one way to look at the situation but just think of the numbers?

Take a dynamic with a sensitivity of 2mV/Pa (a hot one!) you wanted 60dB of gain ok? Now replace that with a capacitor mic of 20mV/Pa, that will produce the same modulation level in the DAW for just 40dB of gain. The advantage of most cap' mics is that you get the higher sensitivity with lower overall noise than most AIs can manage at high gain. The disadvantage is that most such mics are not suited to very close working but, with a good pop screen they can be. Capacitors also give you a wider response, the classic "20 to 20, giving a "crisper" sound. That is not a criticism of dynamics. Their sound is familiar and therefore liked.

You will find on this audio game that "fair" results can be obtained from quite basic kit of modest cost..SO LONG as you don't have problems. A noisy place is a problem and often needs a bit more cash to be spent to get good results.

Dave.
I was worried about noise with the SM57 hooked into an AI actually, considering I may have to crank the gain up a bunch. Grabbing a condenser mic definitely seems like a smart idea, my view have shifted rapidly.

If I were to get a condenser mic, I assume any AI or Mixer around the $100 mark would be rather reasonable? 48V Phantom Power, anything else to keep in mind?
Thanks a ton for the insight about condensers. :)

Edit: What makes a "good" pop filter?
 
Now, TCee, I had assumed (and I think others did?) that you already HAD the SM57 and were looking for a suitable means to record with it? If you presently have nothing and are starting from scratch it might be best to back up a bit and tell us your exact reasons and proposed working mode for these recordings?
Questions arise such as..

Quality: Do you want a finished product to a good "professional" standard in terms of noise levels, equip,emt and surroundings or is this just for "fun" and you can live with a bit of hiss and "noises off"?

Type of vocal work: Speech of a straight "reading instructions" style or a bit more "thespian" with sections of low levels?

Now, a good capacitor mic and a modest AI will give you a very low noise floor but you will find it impossible to keep noises out and IF you want a "pro" result you will need to spend a LONG time editing and re doing phrases.

What other kit do you have or expect to have? Monitor speakers, headphones?

If you want an off the wall reccy? Rode LDC and a Focusrite 2i4. Sennheiser or AKG headphones.

Pop shields? Most mics come with something or you can make one.

Dave.
 
If you buy a Shure Sm7 - then they're quiet mics. 57s and 58s are to all intents and purposes - normal dynamics. Forget the numbers - they'll work. For years the President of the USA used 57s from the podium - not remotely lips on the grill and they all sounded fine. Modern preamps have better performance now than ones they used back in the 70s. Personally, I like 57s. If they pop with your voice, pop on a bit of foam. You can buy cheap decent condensers if you buy a preamp/interface with 48V phantom power. Plenty of decent packages out there to get you going. I'd stop worrying about the numbers as others have said.

All the mics have their own 'tone character but the usual problems are the room - so many youtube videos have nice mics in the wrong place or in dreadful square rooms and boy, can you hear it! Plenty of things you can do - once you know your new gear.
 
Now, TCee, I had assumed (and I think others did?) that you already HAD the SM57 and were looking for a suitable means to record with it? If you presently have nothing and are starting from scratch it might be best to back up a bit and tell us your exact reasons and proposed working mode for these recordings?
Questions arise such as..

Quality: Do you want a finished product to a good "professional" standard in terms of noise levels, equip,emt and surroundings or is this just for "fun" and you can live with a bit of hiss and "noises off"?

Type of vocal work: Speech of a straight "reading instructions" style or a bit more "thespian" with sections of low levels?

Now, a good capacitor mic and a modest AI will give you a very low noise floor but you will find it impossible to keep noises out and IF you want a "pro" result you will need to spend a LONG time editing and re doing phrases.

What other kit do you have or expect to have? Monitor speakers, headphones?

If you want an off the wall reccy? Rode LDC and a Focusrite 2i4. Sennheiser or AKG headphones.

Pop shields? Most mics come with something or you can make one.

Dave.
Sorry for misleading you, I do currently not own a microphone.

This is definitely more of a "fun" project, however, I still want a clean sound. If there is interference that is barely noticeable unless I focus on it, all should be fine. The use is for commentary, specifically video game related. It may also be used for podcasts and singing in the future. Processing the audio after a recording is ideal in some cases, but I would also like to use the mic "live" when having a chat with friends (daily).

I got a pair of Beyerdynamic DT770 headphones which I want to be able to use more frequently, to do that, I need a new microphone so I can replace my HyperX Cloud II headset completely. This is yet another reason for a mic investment.
 
Rob, with the greatest respect, the "Presidential" use of a 57 is not comparable to home (or studio) recording.

First off, politicians know how to project, they LOVE the sound of their own voice even if, ESPECIALLY when talking bollocks. The mics are used for sound reinforcement, not rock band PA. I have used Reslo ribbons for that job at AGMs and such and even a foot from the speaker they are fine despite being at least 6dB colder than a dynamic.

Lastly, I bet if you were to put a presidential address through the wringer you would find the signal to noise ratio pretty appalling?

Dave.
 
Sorry for misleading you, I do currently not own a microphone.

This is definitely more of a "fun" project, however, I still want a clean sound. If there is interference that is barely noticeable unless I focus on it, all should be fine. The use is for commentary, specifically video game related. It may also be used for podcasts and singing in the future. Processing the audio after a recording is ideal in some cases, but I would also like to use the mic "live" when having a chat with friends (daily).

I got a pair of Beyerdynamic DT770 headphones which I want to be able to use more frequently, to do that, I need a new microphone so I can replace my HyperX Cloud II headset completely. This is yet another reason for a mic investment.
I didn't want to send you down another [microphone] rabbithole, but just wanted to make sure you understood that it's not the mic that's the determinant "in general" but the way it's used. For voice work, dynamics are popular, but it's that typical close-to-the mic usage, and, honestly, their ruggedness and relatively low cost, that make them popular. And, of course, they sound fine on the human voice, which is not going to test the limits of any [decent] microphone's range.

The downside is that gain thing, esp. with your bargain price point for an interface, coupled with a far-from-ideal space, you're into a world of compromises, and deciding the "best" path is difficult. But, unless you're going to be videotaping yourself talking and object to a mic right in your face, the SM58 is a fair option because it's get slightly better sensitivity than the 57 and already has a built-in pop filter. And, you can get a bag of foam screens for like a buck on eBay if you want to add extra pop/wind dampening. You'll just want to use it relatively close to your mouth for the best signal/noise ratio, which will minimize the room's faults to some degree, but it won't eliminate them.

I'd look at an interface with 2 mic preamps, just because it's going to let you test things, or need a 2nd mic for many different scenarios (even easy A/B testing of other mics). The bargain priced Behringer U-phoria line seem to be getting decent reviews, and something like the 204HD will work, based on this video:
YouTube
 
I didn't want to send you down another [microphone] rabbithole, but just wanted to make sure you understood that it's not the mic that's the determinant "in general" but the way it's used. For voice work, dynamics are popular, but it's that typical close-to-the mic usage, and, honestly, their ruggedness and relatively low cost, that make them popular. And, of course, they sound fine on the human voice, which is not going to test the limits of any [decent] microphone's range.

The downside is that gain thing, esp. with your bargain price point for an interface, coupled with a far-from-ideal space, you're into a world of compromises, and deciding the "best" path is difficult. But, unless you're going to be videotaping yourself talking and object to a mic right in your face, the SM58 is a fair option because it's get slightly better sensitivity than the 57 and already has a built-in pop filter. And, you can get a bag of foam screens for like a buck on eBay if you want to add extra pop/wind dampening. You'll just want to use it relatively close to your mouth for the best signal/noise ratio, which will minimize the room's faults to some degree, but it won't eliminate them.

I'd look at an interface with 2 mic preamps, just because it's going to let you test things, or need a 2nd mic for many different scenarios (even easy A/B testing of other mics). The bargain priced Behringer U-phoria line seem to be getting decent reviews, and something like the 204HD will work, based on this video:
I've heard mostly negative about Behringer products, but I might check them out.

I'd say that the insight I've gotten from you guys is enough for me to make a decision on what to get... after some more product research of course. Thanks for helping me out! :)
 
The guy on YT was running way too hot, touching 0dBfs at times so in the screen grab below I have pulled the level back to an average of -18dBfs. Sod's law prevails and the instant I hit prnt scrn it dipped below -20!

His shutted up noise floor was around -70dBfs after correcting the level which rather better than Dolby B cassette.

I am no great fan of Behringer but it cannot be denied that they make some remarkably good kit at stupid prices. I think at least one member here has a UM something?

Dave.
 

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There's a lot of sound going on both inside and outside of my house, such mics would likely pick it up much easier as my room isn't soundproof or "foamed up".

You won't make an existing room in a home 'soundproof' unless you have a very large room (to start with) and wallet. What you do want to do is cut down the crappy acoustics - slapback echo, boxiness. Outside noise - if you can hear it clearly inside, a mic will pick it up. If its low volume, and you keep the gain down on the mic, maybe not.
For goodness sake, do not buy 'acoustic foam'.
 
I've heard mostly negative about Behringer products, but I might check them out.

I'd say that the insight I've gotten from you guys is enough for me to make a decision on what to get... after some more product research of course. Thanks for helping me out! :)

I've been using a Behringer UMC204HD since it first came out. It gets a lot of use, and not one problem so far. I run 57's, 58's, several different condensers, line in bass, and guitars, and keys at times. It runs on both my pc and my mac just fine. As far as I'm concerned it a solid piece of gear that does a very good job considering the price. For voice overs , and gaming. I like the MXLBCD-1 Microphone. It's not quite as good as an RE20 but, for the price it's getting close.
 
I've heard mostly negative about Behringer products, but I might check them out.

I'd say that the insight I've gotten from you guys is enough for me to make a decision on what to get... after some more product research of course. Thanks for helping me out! :)

They get badmouthed a lot. Yes there used to be some DOA or early fail problems, but if it worked then it worked well.

Our last church used a behringer board a DJ donated to them used. It worked just fine.

And since behringer got bought their quality has gone up. Just saw a touring group using the mx32 digital mixer for their evening at our new church. Worked well. Too loud was my only complaint with them.
 
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