The people who have never designed circuits explain why USB mics suck thread

mshilarious

Banned
OK, I can think of four semi-legitimate complaints against USB mics in general:

- They are mono. OK, they don't have to be--most if not all USB codecs (I assume you know what a codec is) are stereo, so they *can* support stereo operation. That's a design decision, not a design limitation. It's possible for them to be multichannel as well, that's down to driver implementation--see next point.

- They are limited to 16/48. That's only true of USB mics intended for USB Audio Class 1.0 compliance. That is actually a feature rather than a limit, because it means the mic does not have to have custom drivers for it, the AC 1.0 standard is native to *many* devices, especially portable devices.

And is 16 bit really the limit you think it is? Yeah, 16 bit was more work, but somehow we managed to slog through. Read on! First, if a mono mic is what is called for in the application, then the stereo codec can be cleverly used as a differential input--happily, some codec manufacturers seem to use dither that is at least partially common-mode. That means you can realize >100dB mono dynamic range out of a stereo 16 bit converter. Clever.

But even if you're still stereo, is 90dB dynamic range not enough? That was more than anybody had in analog days. Oh wait, you say, we had Dobly back then (Spinal Tap joke, sorry), that expanded dynamic range beyond what the tape was actually capable of. You know what? You can use the same technique in digiland, and there's even an existing AES standard for CD preemphasis--that together with the differential thingy can push A-weighted dynamic range for a mono mic close to 110dB--out of 16 bit! And stereo to 100dB.

But hey! If a manufacturer chooses, they can bypass AC 1.0 and write drivers, and do any sample rate/bit depth they want. How would that be any different from a USB interface? Do you honestly think the electronics in an "interface" are magically different than in a "mic"? Think again.

But wait once more! For a few years now there's been AC 2.0, which is 24/192 and up to six channels (that's off the top of my head, gotta check). It hasn't been widely implemented, but once is it then we'll have 24/192 surround USB mics (ports for extra capsules if you like) with driver-free, universal plug-and-play.

- They are ADC only. Well, not all are, some have headphone ports. As I said, they mostly use codecs, so they are capable of doing ADC and DAC. This is an implementation issue. A corollary to that is you can't select different input and output audio devices with ASIO. That is an ASIO limitation, not a limitation of the laws of physics in the universe.

- The codecs are cheap. Actually they are rather expensive! But that shouldn't matter, because some of them allow SPDIF input. Now it's a funny thing and maybe not implemented often or ever, but you could use the sexiest converter chip you like into a SPDIF transmitter into a USB codec, and the codec will have nothing to do with the quality of conversion. Or you can use a USB transceiver chip with your converter IC via I2S and skip the codec and SPDIF transmitter (several USB mics do that) and write your own drivers. Again, this is implementation, not a physical limit. I find that if you work with the codecs for a while and squeeze what you can out of their circuits, the quality is just fine--as good or better than the prosumer converters before 2001 or so. But I guess nobody ever made a hit record on an ADAT, right?


All of the other objections--and I invite you to try them--are based upon your misunderstanding of digital and analog electronics. So let's hear them.


Bottom line: if a recordist wants a simple, no-fuss, no-muss method of recording *mono or stereo tracks only*, you are doing them a serious disservice by universally panning a class of microphones you largely haven't even tried. You are costing them money, and money=time, which means you are unnecessarily taking away a piece of their life. Please stop it.
 
The only thing that most if not all USB microphones lack is the sexiness only found with the *Blue Yeti* physical look. -- Yah Sir!!
 
My main objection is to the marketing hype and sales people that led customers to believe the product would do things it wouldn't.

By the time someone gets around to multichannel surround recording they aren't going to want their interface built into a mic body.
 
My main objection is to the marketing hype and sales people that led customers to believe the product would do things it wouldn't.

By the time someone gets around to multichannel surround recording they aren't going to want their interface built into a mic body.

99% of recordists never do surround. I have the capability but not the desire. I don't even bother with more than stereo for drums anymore. This is because I suck at drums, but you know, a stereo pair works too.

I don't see the marketing hype around USB mics. They are marketed mainly as vocal mics. They work pretty well for that. Other simple stuff too. Acoustic guitar doesn't *have* to be recorded in stereo.

You want hype? The ol' Tascam 4-track cassette decks, those things were hyped. But they were fine for what they were. I never wasted two tracks on stereo ac gtr though, it was one track, and usually with a 57. I'd take an AT2020USB over that rig any day.
 
Have you been toying with the possibilities of a new line of microphones?

I have a new line but I don't talk about it. Rule #1, you don't talk about Mic Club! Or something like that. But I'll talk here because everybody is already pissed off at me anyway.

So it has something for everyone. I think I finally re-figured out how to do a tube mic, this time with <2mA. The transformer is a sticking point at the moment, I think I need something with more Hs then I can get, but I think I can trick the one I have with careful loading. So that's a mic body, the capsules are all interchangeable. There will be a tube amp for the dinosaurs (OK, I admit, they are kinda fun) and there will be a USB amp for the cool kids. Right now it's all just garden-variety analog transistor amps, not too sexy . . . but soon. And then I'll do a USB tube amp! Ha ha!

But what I am really excited about is my little self-powered amp/phantom supply/USB jobbie, this is a smartphone-sized device intended for the smartphone/tablet set. It doesn't even require mic bodies, not only mine, but it supports remote capsule systems from many of the big boys. I will post a pic of the prototype PCB-under-construction as nobody here will want this thing anyway:
 
It's alright if someone asks about a product for you to talk about it!

You'll have to let me know when it's in production - estimated cost?
 
Which, the picture? Analog-only is in the $200-$300 range, with cable. It's mostly up on the website now, although I haven't finished the formal specs yet (because that PCB isn't done yet, grrrr), so those aren't up. I mean I pretty much know them within 10%, but . . .
 
Yeah, I love that tiny guy. I used to do a little guy with full-size XLRs, but it's gotten to the point where I only love the smallest things that can exist. I mean, I've been there for a long time with cars. So I did the tiny guy starting . . . um, I guess a year and a half ago? And it quickly has killed off the larger versions.

The latest version with P48 is just sick though, I really need a parts density intervention of some sort. I didn't even think P48 was possible until I realized I could push the capacitors out to the cable connectors. That is clever because since the supply resistors are also in the connectors then the amp can be high input impedance, which means all of the capacitors can be . . . yep, smaller :cool:

I don't really like P48 though, it just uses sooooo much power . . .
 
Great stuff ! I'm still waiting for Bobbsy to show up here? That was a great pro/con discussion in the other thread.
 
My objections are mainly based on a couple of things you don't mention.

First a person who only wants to record a single mic forever is an animal that rarely exists. When they start out, they can rarely see that they will want to expand their horizons in the future but most do (or else give up and leave the USB mic to gather dust anyway). I believe the best advice is to suggest the building blocks of a system that can be expanded upon without total replacement in the future.

Second, the "simplicity" of USB mics (I'll call them that since, at the economy end of the market, that's what they're know as) is over-rated and often untrue. Yes, you have one cable to plug in and no knobs to twiddle but just look at how many questions relating to the DAW side of things are caused by the flakey (or at least non specialist) nature of the drivers being use. Or how many issues there can be using one piece of hardware for the input but use the computer's headphone out for monitoring. I'm a denizen of a couple of software support forums and a sizeable number of the queries we have to deal with can be traced back to using the "simple" USB mic.

Third, as hinted at above, for anything beyond the most basic home recording, you need some form of external sound card anyway simply for the output side of things. Yes, there are a few mics that also provide headphone outputs but they're the exception, not the rule--and once people follow advice and buy proper monitor speakers, what then?

Fourth, the maximum cable length allowed within the USB2 spec is 5 metres. In all but the simplest of set ups, this is going to force compromises in terms of the relative positions of mic and computer. Again, a common theme of advice given on this forum is to be aware of the effect mic placement and room acoustics have on recording.

I know all you say about the THEORY of digital mics is very true. However, it's rarely accurate in the real world. I stand by my frequent comments that a basic balanced-analogue output microphone and suitable audio interface is by far the best investment to make at an entry level. If I'm guilty of over simplification because I don't put in all the caveats and exceptions, so be it. But at the newbie level such caveats and exceptions add to confusion, not information.

(Oh, and by the way, since I suspect the "people who have never designed circuits" part of the topic title may be aimed at me, I've been involved in the design of circuits for a number of companies. Indeed, if you Google my real name and get past the Canadian footballer and British composer of the same name as me, you'll even find some published scientific papers by major electronics manufacturers that include me on the author list.)
 
Back
Top