The people who have never designed circuits explain why USB mics suck thread

mshilarious said:
I wish the whole "pro" thing would just die (no, this isn't an anti-Behringer post, per se ;) ). Back in 4-track days nobody cared about pro. Then a few people could afford ADAT, then PCs, then suddenly it's 100 tracks on every tunes and 13 plugs on every track. But the music isn't any better, just a bit more produced.

Hopefully kids will take a new generation of portable tools and make some fun music again, free of all this crap (software, hardware, and mental) we've loaded ourselves down with.
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I'm pretty sure you are talking about a generation transitioning to mobile technologies for recording purposes, but I agree for a different reason. PC recording has always been problematic for me so I got a Tascam 2488. It lets you track, but even with the built-in advanced functionality, the machine basically forces you to record full tracks and fix mistakes by learning to play parts rather than piece together individually recorded guitar strums and drum hits. It is easy to use, pretty fool-proof and reliable, and is forcing me to focus more on what I am playing and how well I am doing it.

Incidentally, in reference to an earlier quote of yours, while I like the new designs you've got out, I definitely still love my Naiant omnis with the waveplates from when that design first came out and the mic was built into a full-size Neutrik XLR jack.
 
Until there is a universal standard where a USB mic will work everywhere I'm not interested and wouldn't recommend since where people start out is not often where they end up. Two years ago all I did was was plug into a computer, now however I need so much more

If, for example I were to buy the worlds pristine example of a high quality, superbly configured, wonderful conversion USB mic get it home unpack it and get ready to record.

I want to track through my LA-2A, Can't. Ok What about my PRO VLA, Cant. DBX EQ? nope. Hmm any of my Chameleon labs stuff? no.
Well what if I want to get a little bit of grit through an API style pre? Sorry no.

Well OK can I bring it with me to a gig and plug it into the analog board to mic up my amp? No
Ok well I'm doing an accoustic guitar set at my kids school, can I plug it into their PA set up? Oh dear, no

If all you will ever do is plug a mic into a computer then a USB mic maybe exactly what you need. If you will ever need to do anything else. At least in the next decade until there is a USB port and and possible DA converters on every piece of gear that might be in any live or studio scenario then A USB mic will leave you wanting

That is why as of now I don't see them as a particularly flexible option, TRS/XLR is somewhat of a standard in audio gear that I run into in studios and Live applications
 
Bristol Posse said:
Until there is a universal standard where a USB mic will work everywhere I'm not interested and wouldn't recommend since where people start out is not often where they end up. Two years ago all I did was was plug into a computer, now however I need so much more

If, for example I were to buy the worlds pristine example of a high quality, superbly configured, wonderful conversion USB mic get it home unpack it and get ready to record.

I want to track through my LA-2A, Can't. Ok What about my PRO VLA, Cant. DBX EQ? nope. Hmm any of my Chameleon labs stuff? no.
Well what if I want to get a little bit of grit through an API style pre? Sorry no.

Well OK can I bring it with me to a gig and plug it into the analog board to mic up my amp? No
Ok well I'm doing an accoustic guitar set at my kids school, can I plug it into their PA set up? Oh dear, no

If all you will ever do is plug a mic into a computer then a USB mic maybe exactly what you need. If you will ever need to do anything else. At least in the next decade until there is a USB port and and possible DA converters on every piece of gear that might be in any live or studio scenario then A USB mic will leave you wanting

That is why as of now I don't see them as a particularly flexible option, TRS/XLR is somewhat of a standard in audio gear that I run into in studios and Live applications
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There's a pretty good argument right there I think.
You can run XLR into a 'puter because of all the available interfaces but you can't really use that USB mic for anything eles . That makes it a single purpose mic ..... good for one thing only.

However, if I'm getting this right, Mshilarious' contention would be that there are, in fact, a substantial number of consumers who would only want that one single use.

I think that's possible ....... every old preacher in a church that might want to record a sermon but doesn't want to learn even the slightest info about using the thing ...... or a traveling sports guy that want to do a podcast out on the road or a lot of other similar scenarios. People whose need for a recordable mic isn't really tied to the reason WE all use mics.

Now that I'm think of it ........ there could be LOTS of people that have virtually no interest in recording per se, or maybe even not music for that matter, that would be a natural customer for such a product.
 
Now we're being a little silly, I mean I was being a little silly when I started the thread, but show me where I said that everybody should use USB mics and that LA2As should be retrofitted to be USB hosts?

Look, I don't start the threads asking about USB mics. There is consumer demand for these devices, and the product quality is improving. My point is there is no technical reason why a USB mic can't be a high quality mono or stereo recording solution.

The problem we have is the title of this forum: "Home Recording". It attracts those not-too-serious about recording. This is different from when the board started 13 years ago; we were mainly serious people of limited funds :D But since then some of us got rich and bought or got clever and built LA2As. Wonderful. We don't really belong here in 2012, but we stay for nostalgic reasons or out of an altruistic desire to help noobs.

Which is great, but first we must emphasize with them! What do they really want to do? What do they need to do it? Are we meeting them there, or are we projecting our desires onto them?

Personally, I would never use a USB mic in my studio because I have this eight channel converter box. Ironically I only have a stereo preamp . . . . long story. Anyway, I have the room wired through the walls, etc. I thought that wireless keyboard & mouse and a couple of HDMI ports in the wall was clever because I could move my control around the room, and it was for 2007.

When I drag my 2005-vintage laptop out in the field to make a stereo concert recording though, there I'd use a USB mic--a stereo one, of course.

If I had to start all over I'd seriously think about a tablet and a stereo USB mic with a headphone port.
 
mshilarious said:
Now we're being a little silly, I mean I was being a little silly when I started the thread, but show me where I said that everybody should use USB mics and that LA2As should be retrofitted to be USB hosts?

Look, I don't start the threads asking about USB mics. There is consumer demand for these devices, and the product quality is improving. My point is there is no technical reason why a USB mic can't be a high quality mono or stereo recording solution.

The problem we have is the title of this forum: "Home Recording". It attracts those not-too-serious about recording. This is different from when the board started 13 years ago; we were mainly serious people of limited funds :D But since then some of us got rich and bought or got clever and built LA2As. Wonderful. We don't really belong here in 2012, but we stay for nostalgic reasons or out of an altruistic desire to help noobs.

Which is great, but first we must emphasize with them! What do they really want to do? What do they need to do it? Are we meeting them there, or are we projecting our desires onto them?

Personally, I would never use a USB mic in my studio because I have this eight channel converter box. Ironically I only have a stereo preamp . . . . long story. Anyway, I have the room wired through the walls, etc. I thought that wireless keyboard & mouse and a couple of HDMI ports in the wall was clever because I could move my control around the room, and it was for 2007.

When I drag my 2005-vintage laptop out in the field to make a stereo concert recording though, there I'd use a USB mic--a stereo one, of course.

If I had to start all over I'd seriously think about a tablet and a stereo USB mic with a headphone port.
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I don't disagree with you and I wasn't attempting to be silly. I may even agree that if all you ever want to do is plug a mic into a computer then a USB mic could well be the right answer. It's just that things tend to snowball and when you want options a USB limits you and so far I haven't seen a great resale market for USB mics, although thst could easily change.

If you intend to make music, buying a Cheapo interface and an SM57 will never be a bad idea (IMO of course) you'll always find a use for a 57, you can use it in a live set up too if you get bitten by the bug and if you find yourself in a situation of needing more mics or inputs you can sell the starter interface, keep the 57 and expand as needed

I have nothing against USB mics in theory, they wouldn't work for me though because of my setup and I don't really know anyone in home music production who started small and didn't end up wanting more, whether it was in the cassette porta studio days or in todays more "Advanced" market and I still think a USB mic is limiting your future choices and so may not be the long term best, or even most economical buy
 
mshilarious said:
Look, I don't start the threads asking about USB mics. There is consumer demand for these devices, and the product quality is improving.
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It's not the people who ask someone knowledgeable first that concern me, it's the ones who buy the things based on inaccurate, incomplete or just plain dishonest information from manufacturers and retailers and then come here wondering why they can't do the basic recording tasks they were led to believe the product would let them do.

I've done my share of sales and the right thing to do is find out the customer's needs (including the ones they didn't think of on their own) and direct them to a product that will satisfy them. My impression is that many USB mics are built to a price and sold to people based on price alone with little regard to the end user's real needs.
 
Sure, everything is oversold, so were 4-tracks. I think we've been over that ground.

To me even if the "studio" rig moves on, a USB mic should continue to have utility in a portable setup, as they do for me. There is no law that says every bit of kit must be useful everywhere. As for resale, well all of the stuff at the low end has poor resale, but that's true of cheap interfaces as well. This stuff will all get obsolete. Yeah, you can't lose more than $20 on a 57, but if you want to plug it into a computer (of any type), you'll need an interface that will lose as much or more value than the USB mic.

And if you buy a $1K mic new the next day it's probably lost as much value as the USB mic costs.
 
Personally I never buy anything because of resale value ..... I buy it because I want or need it. To me the resale isn't a consideration for whether I buy something in the first place.
 
mshilarious said:
...
All of the other objections--and I invite you to try them--are based upon your misunderstanding of digital and analog electronics. So let's hear them.
...
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Perhaps, then again perhaps not, because whether I understand digital and analog electronics has little, if anything, to do with the how I choose a microphone, a microphone preamp and/or AD conversion. I rely on my ears.

The three USB mics I have tried sounded mundane at best, and that is being gracious. The Schoeps (or Gefell, or Neumann or 3 Zigma CHI) mics I use, with the Pendulum Audio MDP-1a (or DBX 786 or ADK AP2 or Pendulum Audio SPS-1) preamps I use, with the Lucid 88192 AD converters I use sound and behave much better, much much better, and that's being polite. Of course, I'm using my ears and not my knowledge of "digital and analog electronics" when making this subjective opinion.
 
How about a Schoeps CMD 2 with your cap of choice into an AES 42 power supply into the SPDIF input of a USB codec? How would that sound?
 
Lt. Bob said:
Personally I never buy anything because of resale value ..... I buy it because I want or need it. To me the resale isn't a consideration for whether I buy something in the first place.
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Resale value as a main consideration? No.

However, it's amazing how often good build quality and high resale value go hand in hand--and I do try to consider build quality!
 
Nah, it doesn't. Or at least it's an opportunity, not a problem.

Years ago I bought a good 1" 8 track recorder, used it for ages, then sold it for more than I paid despite it needing new belts to work properly.
 
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