need a more sensitive mic for fingerstyle guitar

anton

New member
Hi Everyone,

I am looking for a sensitive mic for fingerstyle guitar. I currently own a pair of the MXL 603's. Would something like the Earthworks SRO be more sensitive than what i have now? What does one look for when determining mic sensitivity? See my thread titled "Need Preamp to Complement my Mbox" in The Rack section of the forum.

I am thinking for fingerstyle guitar i either need a more sensitive mic, more gain via an additional preamp, or both.

Here is a short sample i recorded.




anton
 
signal chain

By the way, the recording is a single 603 off the 10th fret about two feet away point down at a 45 degree angle or so. The gain on the Mbox is at the three o clock position, five o clock would be full.


anton
 
im no expert by any means


the recording doesnt sound that bad.... But it feels kinda hollow and empty..

i own a pair of 603's , they sound amazing when used in stereo recordings....

perhaps try using both 603's in a xy postioning as close as you can get, and perhaps a good condensor mic a foot in front of it or so as a room mic... and mix all that together..
 
You are right, it does sound empty. Thats exactly the impression i have been getting when listening back to my stuff. I guess perhaps i should try an omni, as i feel that i want to hear more of the room, or at least a bigger impression of the sound.


anton
 
not that i know of. My only problem is that the signal is just not strong enough, like i am not getting enough gain. i think perhaps another pre might fix that.


anton
 
anton said:
not that i know of. My only problem is that the signal is just not strong enough, like i am not getting enough gain. i think perhaps another pre might fix that.


anton
Does that mean this is a tone or sound perspective issue (if the sig/noise is good)?
 
I agree with the earlier poster that mentioned no problems with a pair of 603s. Mine are plenty "sensitive" enough and make great acoustic recordings. I think other mics are going to give you a different flavor but not much of a stronger signal.

I would reccomentd you try a second 603s (I've seen a bunch go for as little as $50 recently) like reccomended above, and do some serious experimenting with placement. My setup can go from clipping to faint to sublime with a few inches here and there. My best results come from XY, I've tried to put one at the bridge and another at the 12th fret, and just using then as stereo room mics.

You mention wanting the room in there, but how nice is the sound in your room? My first inclination was to suggest treatment, and to move the mics/playing spot around to find the sweet spot in your room. In my (admittedly limited) experience, the way somehting sounds to your ears will not necessarily be how the mic picks it up, especially with condensors, where some degree of treatment can really make a big difference in reduccing the amount of ambiant room noise (often originating outside the room). While you work out the mic issues, i would try to emilinate the room, and add reverb via the mix. Try the old trick of putting the mic(s) in the closet (full of clothes) facing out and play at the closet. Compare that recording with your others and you should at least get a better idea of what you mic is capable of.

Daav
 
mixsit said:
Does that mean this is a tone or sound perspective issue (if the sig/noise is good)?

I guess its more of a sound prespective issue. The tone is fine, to me it just sounds like the listener is right up two inches from guitar. Here is a recording my buddy did with a Larrivee L-03R guitar, an Earthworks SRO into a Digitube Pre and direct into some sort of cd burner.



This is more the sound i want. It sounds the listener is back a bit from the guitar, and to me sounds more natural.



anton
 
your buddy's tune

anton said:
Here is a recording my buddy did with a Larrivee L-03R guitar, an Earthworks SRO into a Digitube Pre and direct into some sort of cd burner.



This is more the sound i want. It sounds the listener is back a bit from the guitar, and to me sounds more natural.



anton

Your recording sounded good but it seems like he had a lot more gain than you did. You could hear some gain noise in his recording when he wasn't playing. It seems to me that your signal needs to be hotter. IMHO
 
Last edited:
thanks

Thanks for the advice. Guess i will pickup a DMP3 to give myself some more gain. I think the DMP3 maxes out at 66db, and the Mbox pre's go no higher than 50db. So if i go Mic-DMP3-Mbox, and raise the gain beyond 50db with DMP3, will it be to strong for the Mbox?


thanks


anton
 
Looks like I'm going to jump on the consensus wagon here. I've been using 603's for quite awhile. I couldn't imagine them not being sensitive enough. In fact if anything, I have a time of it capturing an intimate recording while still avoiding breath and body movement sounds. I think of them being quite sensitive actually. I would second what some on else already suggested, try another mic to be sure the one you've got is working properly and possibly another mic pre as well...perhaps the pre isn't working. Are you certain of your 48 volt phantom power?
 
pre

Yea, the Mbox is 48V phantom power. I think i will pick up a dmp3 soon. Its possible the pre in the mbox is broke, but it sounds fine when i play flute, which gives out a much stronger signal. i think its just the light touch of my fingerstyle playing needs a hotter signal.



anton
 
The DMP3 will give you tons of gain - much more capability than you will need. It's a no-brainer from my perspective. I use the 603s pair as well as a DMP3 for all kinds of stuff. The preamp makes a decent direct box as well. Pretty versatile.
 
the earthworks mics are really hot mics. If you have the dough, the best mic I have EVER heard on guitar is the josephson c617 with MG MK221 cap. it is a measurement mic and BOY it sings.
 
AKG C414 is really hard to beat on acoustic guitar. The MXL603 will get you by but you'll not likely go back to them after hearing the difference. The C414 is full, natural & present in comparision. A lot more money but very usefull all around too.
 
The 603s has a pretty hot level, high detail, and is very quiet. At any distance, preamp gain shouldn't be a problem with it. I'm with you on preferring mic placement that gets the whole sound of the guitar rather than the tone a few inches away.

The tone quality of the guitar in the clip sounds like you play very quietly. I've found the 603s to have good detail on very quiet players, but it sounds like you need more volume consistency in the playing to get the best out of the gear. The playing in the clip sounds inconsistent in its volume control, note to note in the line. Not trying to knock your playing.... you sound very good and I enjoyed listening to the clip, just making the point that recording problems - especially w/ac gtr - are not always a gear issue. And volume consistency is much better sounding if controlled by the player rather than by using a compressor to level everything out.

The 603s is a quiet enough mic that even if you play very quietly and like the sound of the gtr mic'd from a distance, you can just boost the level after recording the file and make it as hot as you want.

Tim
 
Thanks again for the advice. I am trying to work on my playing as well, trying to get an hour a day in with the metronome, playing my fingerstyle arrangements at a slow pace. Thanks for the suggestion about my volume level, i will keep it in mind.

Guess i will get a DMP3 to hopefully make the signal hotter. A few people said i obviously need more gain, cause if i crank up the Mbox pre's any more they will distort.

I have heard as well that the 414's are good. Al Petteway, a guitarist i admire, uses them for solo guitar. Perhaps one day i can get a pair, but not now.


anton
 
Back
Top