Mic & Pre combo for under 2k

S

scottr

New member
Hello, my band and I are looking to purchase a mic and pre combo for a record we are working on now. We are making the purchase mainly for vocals, but may use some of it on guitars and piano. Right now I am mainly using a SP C1 into Soundcraft M12 pres (or sometimes blue tube) into a Digi001. The m12 pres sound crappy on guitars, but more importantly, the combo of c1 and m12 isn't so hot on vocals. I also have an Nt1 and some dynamics. We are looking to spend under $2000 for the two items. The singer has a thick and powerful voice, broadwayish. We are looking for a clear and fat pop sound. What would you recommend? We have been looking at Avalon pres (737 and M5) and nuemann mics (tlm103, u87) because we have used them in the past and were pretty happy with them, but we won't be able to get exactly what we want because of budget constraints. What do you guys recommend?

Scott
 
As someone who has done much goofing around lately to find a vocal set-up and acoustic guitar set-up (with less money to use on mic's and pre's), my humble advice is to get a new pre first and see how your mic's sound. Different pre's give mic's a whole new character, who knows, you may really like one of your current mic's with a new pre.

That's what ended up happening to me (I like my sm58 more than my condensers through a Tampa pre for vocals).

smtcharlie
 
For a thick powerful voice you don't need - or often even want - a mic with much color. I'd suggest an AKG 414 for the mic and an API preamp. On the pre you could do a BAE 312A single channel for $899 http://www.brentaverill.com/312a/

414's around $700 or so. I'd run an FMR RNC $170ish compressor after the pre before your DAW.

Will give you a nice, full, defined and tight sound that will cut through a mix without too much effort.

My 2¢.
 
Big Kenny & Middleman.. Any reasoning behind those suggestions?

How do other people feel about putting money into a channel or two of a/d conversion instead?

How do people like the 737 or know how it compares to the M5?

Scott
 
The Great River NP1 and a KSM44 is a great combo....The Soundelux U195 will sound great through anything...the suggestion of higher value converters is a timeless one...It WILL make a huge difference.....With the prospect of recording a male voice thats large and full of harmonics(ala Broadway)..I'm gonna want a fairly neutral mic with a lot of detail and the ability to handle spl's and a preamp with character if you drive it...I would avoid the TLM103 as its a bit toppy and would prefer the TLM127 in this application.The U87 in this application would have to be used with a darker and more colored pre...API512 comes to mind...
 
scottr said:
Big Kenny & Middleman.. Any reasoning behind those suggestions?

How do other people feel about putting money into a channel or two of a/d conversion instead?

How do people like the 737 or know how it compares to the M5?

Scott
Click to expand...

You stated pop music so I went with two very detailed but larger than life preamps. For a clean sound I would opt for the John Hardy for a little color the GR.

As for the mics the Soundelux is detailed, clear, upfront and not too aggressive for a little richer color the AT4060 is a great tube mic. Both have a different part of the pop spectrum sound.

The 737, does not thrill me all that much but many like that sound. Regarding converters, it’s really the bottom line on your sound both captured and coming back at you in the speakers so I would always advise getting this right first if your into engineering for the masses, then monitors of course.

The Digis are fine and equate to about the MAudio 1010s. I imagine, since you have a band and want to get going that you are looking for the best sound and fast. So, unless you want to become engineers, I would opt for the preamps and mics for the most immediate bang for buck part of your sound. If you want to take some time and build a studio right then go for the converters then your monitors and headphone setups. When these are right then go for better preamps and mics. It all depends on what your ultimate goal is.
 
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I'd recommend getting two mics such as the Blue Dragonfly and the Shure SM7. For a clear and sort of big pop sound, I like the A Designs MP-1.
 
I really like the clean sound of the toft. A channel strip will serve you well, the compressor is solid, the eq is great and the pre is clean. A good way to spend $1000
The two mics you have may do very well with the atc and if you add the Shure you will cover a wide range of applications including a nice overhead
You can probably get one of those for around $550 - $600
Now if you can stretch your budget just a bit, grab a Kurzweil Rumour. You will get some wonderful Reverbs plates for vocals(as well as nice bass and guitar stuff) and some very nice A/D converters $500
 
IMHO put some of the $2000 towards getting recorded in a good pro studio
instead of blowing it on gear. Also you can use what you have now to rehearse to get ready for this. This corellates to how important this record is to you.

"Getting recorded" means having it tracked/mixed/mastered professionally BTW.

The quality of the performance and it being captured properly is the biggest
priority-right?

If you're trying to do any self recording/engineering at the same time, this goes double.

Unless you're already an experienced pro level AE (unlike myself).

Probably NOT what you want to hear though...:)

Chris
 
chessparov said:
IMHO put some of the $2000 towards getting recorded in a good pro studio
instead of blowing it on gear. Also you can use what you have now to rehearse to get ready for this. This corellates to how important this record is to you.

"Getting recorded" means having it tracked/mixed/mastered professionally BTW.

The quality of the performance and it being captured properly is the biggest
priority-right?

If you're trying to do any self recording/engineering at the same time, this goes double.

Unless you're already an experienced pro level AE (unlike myself).

Probably NOT what you want to hear though...:)

Chris
Click to expand...

Well, I've recorded about 50 bands over the last 2 and a half years, so I'm not completely inexperienced. We did drums in my buddy's studio on his trident desk, since i'm the drummer and the engineer, the help was nice (as are his drums and the board).
The quality of the performance is the top priority, and that is exactly why we don't want to pay hourly rates to record in high-pressure situations, especially vocals. We like to take our time and get it right. $2000 won't get us too far in a $100/hr studio. Also, we plan to sell all this gear after we're done with it to keep costs low.

Anyhow, we are going back to his studio tommorow to hear some mics, including a 414 and a tlm103 to hopefully get a better idea of what is going to sound good on his voice. Should we run them through his Trident 75 series (which apparently is only putting out 12v of phantom power) or through his focusrite green voicebox? What are these comparable to?

Scott
 
What pressure?
The Beatles recorded their entire first album in under 13 hours total!

Glad to see you may have some "ins" on a good studio, and that you have experience too.

Make sure to include the Studio Projects T3 in the short list.

BTW as you probably know, many singers sound excellent through the humble
SM57 or 545 series. On yours truly, the Shure 548 or Beyer Soundstar MKII
(SM7 sound-alike) sound right up there with expensive condensers
(U87ai/Manley/Telefunken USA/Etc.) and RCA 77's.

The EV RE20 and Sennheiser 441 are worthy of serious consideration also.

Chris
 
You asked about the difference between the 737 and the M5, The M5 is a solid state pre with a big mucking transformer. The 737 is an all tube channel strip with EQ and an optocompressor. My opinion is that the 737 is a one trick pony with a pretty good trick. The M5 is an underated great clean preamp. If you like the sound of a 737, it rocks, but it's the only sound it makes. The M5 just adds gain, with a little of that transformer presence they call "iron". I own an AD2022, which is basically 2 M5's, and it's the basic preamp of this little studio. Frankly, for color and tubes, I'b be looking at Pendulum or others. For a great solid state pre, the Avalon is hard to beat.-Richie
 
Just remembered...

Another great vocal mic for many singers is the Beyer M88.
(my top end is a bit bright on it though-unfortunately)

Chris
 
Ozraves mentioned the Dragonfly above. I second that motion. I have a Billy Joel-esque voice and I'd not been satisfied with anything until I went and A/B'd mikes locally.

I must have done 10 various mikes (including ones mentioned above), and the Dragonfly was the stand out winner.

We did pre the mikes through B.L.U.E.'s new preamp, but it was clear amongst the group which worked best for me.

Microphone choices are VERY peculiar and personal. ANY suggestion offered here is not necessarily the best choice until the source is tested on it. So my suggestion is do exactly that. Take the person to the friendly neighborhood pro audio shop (or recording studio) and try various combinations of the above until the desired sound is acheived. THEN buy it.

Otherwise, you'll repeat my lame experience with taking advice before actually listening and wind up with a great (but expensive) microphone cabinet that contains nothing that sounds good on the desired source. IMO, that's what needs to be done.

Despite ALL the great suggestions offered above, it's really hard to hear tone from text.

Best,

K-
 
Alright.. so we did the mic test. We put up a Tlm103, 414b, C1, NT1 and SM57. The Tlm was worlds above the rest.. Very sparkly yet smooth top end compared to the rest. And we got a good deal on one on ebay.. $600. Anyone ever heard of the monolith edition? I hope it sounds the same.. I believe the difference is cosmetic only. You guys gave a lot of mic choices, but we felt more comfortable going with something we knew would sound good on his voice.

We also managed to get a good price on the John Hardy M-1. I've read so many great reviews about it saying that its better than the API stuff, and a lot of big names gave it very good reviews. Plus, I NEVER see them on ebay, so people must be holding onto them.

SOOOO.......
We have some dough to spare. We plan to get the RNC (hopefully under 200), and a channel or two of A/D conversion. Any suggestions about the converters? We really only NEED 1 channel, but I imagine there won't be much available in the 1 channel variety. We are looking to spend under $500.

Thanks again everyone for your help.. I think I'm going to be very satisfied!

Scott
 
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