Which mic to complement Shure SM57? Should I buy AKG P170?

bl000dy

New member
I've been using SM57 for 2-3 years as my only mic ever used for vocals/guitar amp/acoustic/lector purposes.

I noticed a long time ago that there are certain EQ corrections (especially in case of electric guitar) I almost always apply to it. Most common is a cut centered around 3-5 kHz with Q around 1.5 and gain between -2 dB to even -7 dB at times.

I guess it's because Shure is very focused at that area. After the cut it has less cutting edge sound, but I hear other freq's clearer and it feels better/bigger overall on most devices. At least that's the case with my music/equipment and the room I record in. And my SM57 is not fake of course ;).

I thought I might buy a second mic to compliment it so I wouldn't have to make that EQ cut as if that mic was not for my use. I think of a mic with a better low/high response and aforementioned cut at high mids.

One particular mic caught my attention - AKG P170. I looked at the graphs and sound samples and compared to SM57 it's less responsive at 3-6 kHz which is sort of what I was looking for, has better low/high response, it's a condenser so finally I could record acoustic and quiet vocals without background noise, I just have to exchange my old lexicon alpha for something with phantom power and 2 channels.

I'm not feeling comfortable about that +6dB bell at 10kHz that the graphs show (even tho SM57's graph looks even more nasty So I don't know... we're after the sound not the specs after all...). I fear that instead of cutting high mid boost on SM57 I'll be cutting that high bell on P170 which would bring me back to where I've started. But maybe I get too much distracted about what's written down on a paper...

I wonder if I could just tie those two mics together and balance them in a mix to find the tone every time I record anything instead of using EQ. I guess it would sound better? If not, then... F*** it...

I don't want mic to cost more than a new SM57, as I also have to upgrade my interface... It's the case at least for now and maybe next half a year... as a fresh polish college student I don't have much money to spare nor the time for mistakes.
Do you guys know of any better option/advice that could suit my needs?
 
AKG mics tend toward very bright to my ears. Most inexpensive condenser mic's are going to have Chinese components so the quality can vary. I would recommend old mic threads here for suggestions and a visit to Microphone Database | Audio Recording News | RecordingHacks where they have a lot of audio examples to compare. If you can audition some in a local retailer that will give you a better idea what will suit your needs. Some of the inexpensive mics are very good but they mostly have colorations and most tend to be less detailed in the midrange.
 
I'd recommend trying different mic positions relative to the speaker to get different results. Place the mic more towards the speaker baffle to pick up less high frequencies, more towards the center of the dust cap to pick up more high frequencies. Try it on axis, off axis, more distant, closer...just experiment. Shine a flashlight through the grille cloth so you can see what you're doing.
 
definitely should be looking at a nice large diaphragm condensor mic. Consider the MXL V67. Good price point. I haven't used it myself, so I don't know if it's as bright as other chinese condensors, but a little EQ takes care of it.

I have the MXL V57m, it is dark. If you can find one, it works well for male vocals.

The SM58 has that peak at 3khz which makes it a nice vocal mic for live use. It can cut through a dense mix. I wouldn't use it for much of anything else, except maybe studio vocals. People use the 58 and 57 on acoustic guitars and say they get good results but I'd rather use a condensor.

You'lll still have to EQ no matter which mic you get.
 
I always used a Sennheiser 421. It has everything that the 57 doesn't have. The two together is a really solid combination.
 
Farview's post sums up for me what microphones are all about. Personal choice and if you like a mic, then it's great. Nobody else can ever tell you you are wrong. I hate the 421s. No physics or science behind this - I just don't like them very much. Other people love them. This is the problem - everyone wants advice and reinforcement their choice is a good one, and we just can't say, other than to advise mass avoidance of certain mics - but even then, the hated mics have real fans.
 
I think Rob sums it up quite nicely.

Every true condenser has a bump at the higher frequencies. You can't tel from looking at the graph if it's nasty or nice. Even Neumann's have that bump.

Dynamics tend to be flatter. But they tend to roll off highs. And they tend to sound very different if not aimed directly at the source. That can be an advantage if you consider leaving out room reflections and ambient noise. That's why I like omni's.
 
...(especially in case of electric guitar) ?

Specifically for electric guitar, I would consider a ribbon mic to complement the 57...though you certainly can use the ribbon for other things too.

A good, inexpensive ribbon would be a Cascade Fat Head. Where the 57 can be edgy, even a bit harsh at times, but helps with giving your tone focus and impact, the Fat Head is smoother in the highs, and has a big low end...so together they can combine for a variety of tones.
There are others...but for those on tight budgets, you can't beat the Cascade Fat Heads.

http://www.cascademicrophones.com/microphones.html
 
and mic placement....ive been reading some old studios and the mic placement is further away 18inches ! or something...and low output mics with tube preamps and this is so different than a high output mic and someone up 6inches off it etc...etc...

and the LDC will pick up the room in addition to having that gorgeous-sparkle.
just gear talk but if the room sucks and the pc fan is 2ft away then a sm57/sm7 dynamic is probably a good bet and get a pre/compressor for something different or some new plugs.

I dont know the P170, SDC..you mentioned..I like it has the 12mv/pa sensitivity thats lower and will be less "drywall & house noises" as say a 28mv/pa....but the SM57 is what? 1.6 or 1.8 ...

lol theres always a trade off somewhere.
 
snip..
One particular mic caught my attention - AKG P170. I looked at the graphs and sound samples and compared to SM57 it's less responsive at 3-6 kHz which is sort of what I was looking for, has better low/high response, it's a condenser so finally I could record acoustic and quiet vocals without background noise, I just have to exchange my old lexicon alpha for something with phantom power and 2 channels.

I'm not feeling comfortable about that +6dB bell at 10kHz that the graphs show (even tho SM57's graph looks even more nasty So I don't know... we're after the sound not the specs after all...). I fear that instead of cutting high mid boost on SM57 I'll be cutting that high bell on P170 which would bring me back to where I've started. But maybe I get too much distracted about what's written down on a paper...
First off I do not know this P170. But I think you may be on to something re; possibly trading one fix' problem for another. It does apparently have quite a significant bump up high -not all that unusual. But also a bump down low? Not that usual. Sounds like ..no, seems like- it could be, another 'fix it spot.
Also, it shows a not so particularly tight cardioid on both side and rear. (Would this be called 'sub-cardioid'?..Not sure



I wonder if I could just tie those two mics together and balance them in a mix to find the tone every time I record anything instead of using EQ. I guess it would sound better? If not, then... F*** it...
I'd def go for a second mic/second flavor/voice option that gets you where you like, rather than some 'two blend approach. After all moving a mic can be just as powerful.
 
Thank you for all your responses!

I might try to find some of the mics you suggested, although I fear it won't be easy to get those less known brands in Poland for a reasonable price (ebay is a thing, but the delivery could cost approx $60 from overseas... it's a lot here).
 
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