Mic choices for solo grand piano/jazz combo recording in small room

[Derel]

I am in need of some microphone advice for a fairly specific
application. I would like to give all of you a fair amount of
information about my situation so you can hone your comments
accordingly. I apologize in advance for the length of this post.

In my home, there is an approximately 11' x 17' room with an
approximately 8' ceiling that functions as my combined control
room/studio/practice room. Positioned along one of the 17' walls
about 4' from the corner is my 6' grand piano, a Steinway L. The
length of the piano runs along one long wall (spaced about 12-18
inches away from the wall), with the lid opening toward the opposite
long wall. (Unfortunately, the arrangement of the doors and windows
in the room prevents me from putting the piano along one of the short
walls, which I realize would likely be a better position
acoustically.)

I want to record solo piano material, primarily my own jazz playing;
however, I would like to be able to record acoustic jazz small groups
in the room as well, also while using the piano (e.g., piano/upright
bass duos, piano/sax duos, piano/bass/drums trios, piano/vocal duos,
maybe quartets, etc.). I have always preferred natural, relatively
uncolored sounds (think ECM Records).

I've only been living in this house for about a two months, so I don't
have a whole lot of experience with the room yet, but my first
impressions are that the room is rather live, bright, and a bit boxy
sounding, at least from the piano bench perspective. The walls are
sheetrock, the ceiling is plywood, and the floor is hardwood with an
area rug covering the center 1/3 or so of the floor surface area.
There are no acoustic treatments in the room (and no floating floors,
rooms within rooms, etc.).

I want to invest in some reasonably priced (specifics later)
microphones to record to my Akai DPS12v2. I want to be able to
experiment with different mic techniques (particularly for solo
piano). I have recorded my trio in larger rooms with only a Blumlein
stereo pair in the middle of the room (mixing by moving instruments),
and I have been very pleased with the results. However, I don't know
if figure-8 mics could work in my little room, particularly in light
of the phase cancellation risk (please correct me if I'm wrong). X/y,
a/b, ORTF, small diaphragm vs. large diaphragm, etc., are all
techniques and comparisons I'd like to explore. I am most interested
in stereo pairs of condensers.

Based on much research on r.a.p. and other newsgroups, I have
concluded that, for my budget, I know I will buy a pair of the
ultracheap Behringer ECM8000 omni mics and a pair of the also
ultracheap MXL 603s mics. I have a Mackie 1202 (old version) for
preamps that I intend to supplement with probably either the BlueTube
or the Symetrix 302 so I can have six mics up at one time (and since
the Akai has six inputs). However, I would like to buy a stereo pair
of large diaphragm condensers for the application mentioned above. I
have tested the AT4033 and thought it was nasal and thin in the middle
register of the piano, and I have tested the Rode NT1000, which I was
relatively pleased with. But I want more options and advice, keeping
in mind that my budget for the pair is maxxed out at $1k. Baby
bottle? KSM? 4050? NT2? Please advise on these and any other options
you can think of. Many advance thanks for your help.

Also, where can I find a cheap stereo bar for carrying x/y, ORTF, etc.
coincident or near-coincident pairs on one mic stand (besides the
expensive Schoeps model)?

Any incidental advice about room treatments or other issues that catch
your eye would also be welcome. Thanks again.

Derel

 

[Michael Jones]

Derel, I have a similar situation to yours. My room is a little bigger, (about 17'x15') and I record solo Piano. I have a 7'-2" Boston Semi Concert Grand. My Walls are 9' high, I have some Pyrimid foam on the attack wall of the piano, and the room is fully carpeted. I'll post a pic of the room if you're interested.

To record my Boston, I use 2 Neumann TLM103's, going to an ART PRO MPA Tube mic pre, and then record in Steinberg's NUENDO at 24 bit.

I play more of a Neo-Classical style of piano. Here's a piece I just recorded recently in this room:
http://artists3.iuma.com/site-bin/streammp3.m3u?190193

I have tried several mics to record this piano, but I think this is the best result so far. I fully believe that it is imperitive that you use a pair of large diaphram condensors to record a grand piano. You're going to be disappointed with smaller diaphram mics.

It seems to me, though I have never tried it, that with that many instruments in such a confined space, the bleed over from the mics is going to make it very frustrating to record in. If individual tracking of the instruments is not an option, I'd look into getting some used office cubicle partitions. They are fairly light-weight and can be moved around easily to isolate each of the instruments. Additionally, the partitions are fairly acoustically dead. Which is a good thing for a small room.

The TLM103's may break your budget at around $750.00 each, but if you could go the extra $500.00 some how, you wont be disappointed in the results.

 

[Downside Studio]

I don't have a grand piano myself, but I'm reinforcing one (actually every show a different model) in a theaterproduction. I also use large diagram mics.

The artist I work with has his own Steinway (don't know the type, but its 2,70 metres, I believe its the biggest out there) Whenever we are recording this one we use the AKG C414 mics.

What I'm trying to say is the following. In my opinion you have two options.

1. Buy a decent pair which make decent recordings and rent for those special recordings some really great mics like the AKG or the Neumanns

2. Save yourself some money and directly buy some really great mics. you'll defenitly hear the difference. I'd go for the TLM103.

So do yourself a favour and before buying cheap mics try some expensive. I guess you didn't get that piano for free. It probably cost you a fortune. Please don't disrespect it by recording with inferior mics.

 

[Downside Studio]

Forgot:

those Neumanns (or alike) can also be used for all other applications. You can have them permanetly setup by your piano, so whenever you want to record you just have to hit the rec button and of you go making another contribution to this world (or not?)

They can be used as a stereopair recording multiple instuments (roommikes)

They can be used on each other instrument including vocals.

Other musicians will haunt you for lending the mics to them. Ask 2% of buying price, and within a year they will even start to make money for you. (Although I would never lend my expensive mics to someone I don't know)