Dynamic ($400) vs Condensor ($400)

E

EdJames

New member
Which would be more appropriate for recording Rnb/Pop male vocals in an untreated room through a preamp?

Any suggestions of particular mics that may record a crisp dry vocal?
 
The generally held opinion on dynamic vs. condenser mics is that dynamic's are best served in a live venue as opposed to the studio. I tend to go with this prevailing opinion as well. Sure there are a plethora of possible uses and effects to be gleaned from using a Dynamic mic in the studio environment, but in most all cases I'd go with the condenser in the studio.....
 
Someone check me here if my reply makes no sense, BUT is seems to me in an untreated room, the lack of treatment will be more apparent through a condenser.
 
Well I must admit I tried both a dynamic and a condensor and whilst the sound quality seemed a lot greater through the condensor (which in fairness was 5 or 6 times the price!) the dynamic did seem to offer a drier vocal.

I'm basically referring to a home studio setup where you're singing in your untreated bedroom, would the condensor pick up too much sound and acoustics?

Basically for someone recording at home, which is the better mic to, in general, purchase?
 
I suppose it depends on what you're looking for. I haven't used one, but there are a variety of "studio dynamics" out there: the Shure SM7 and SM7b come to mind, and Neumann makes the BCM705. Musiciansfriend (as if that were a reliable source!) tags the Neumann as a vocal mic, but its principal use is as a broadcast mic.

Either way, I have heard other people swear by SM7s, and it seems very true that what mic/application will suit your taste or need is what should be guiding your mic choice, not only the fact that the capsule has a coil or a couple of charged plates (thought that might play a part).

Just my $0.02.
 
I would personally go with a condenser. Generally speaking they are a lot clearer than dynamics. As far as your room goes, ever consider standing your matresses up, for a makeshift booth? It actually works pretty well. I've also hung thick blankets on the walls, and that helps deaden the room as well.

Just remember the number one rule of recording: If it sounds good, it is good. If a dynamic sounds better on your vocals, it is better. And don't let cost or popularity of condensers sway your perspective. Use your ears.
 
EdJames said:
Well I must admit I tried both a dynamic and a condensor and whilst the sound quality seemed a lot greater through the condensor (which in fairness was 5 or 6 times the price!) the dynamic did seem to offer a drier vocal.

I'm basically referring to a home studio setup where you're singing in your untreated bedroom, would the condensor pick up too much sound and acoustics?

Basically for someone recording at home, which is the better mic to, in general, purchase?
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There is no right answer here, try a few mics. And what that other guy said about a "prevailing" opinion on mics is nonsense. Condenser mics are generally not used in live senarios because of a. easily broken and b. They are sensitive and will pick up alot more of the room. Some of the best mics around are dynamics, and have been used to make some of the best studio recordings ever. This is not putting down condensers, far from. You just need to work out what mic works best for you in a particular situation. If it happens to be a dynamic, so be it. Likewise a condenser.
 
The best values in vocal microphones are dynamics, by far.

I believe the SM-7, the MD-441, Beyer M-88 and EV RE-20 are some of the finest vocal mics ever made. World-class, and between them appear on hundreds (perhaps thousands) of gold and platinum-selling records as the featured vocal mic.

And any one of them can be had for less than $1000.

In comparison, if you want to purchase one of the finest, world-class condensers on the market, the least expensive you'll find is probably the Neumann U-87, which comes in at around $3,000, which is relatively cheap compared to around $5,000 for a C12 or $10,000 + for an original Telefunken.
.
 
I would second what chess just said there, I have a pair of Sennheiser MD441's and they are absolutely superb. I alson have three beyer M160 ribbon mics and a beyer M88 and they are all outstanding. Beyer make some great mics. The M201 is another fantastic dynamic!
 
how about spending $300 to treat the room the best you can and spending $100 on a Studio Projects B1 or something similar?
 
EdJames said:
I live in rented accomodation in a very small room; treating it just isn't practical.
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Hi Ed...
It sounds like you are silently adding the word ''permanently'' to your statement. I have ''treated'' plenty of spaces temporarily for recording with blankets, quilts, sofa cushions and other soft materials.

And a small untreated space is fairly easy to pad down (treat temporarily). Cloth curtains come into play, as do other ''devices'' to block sound. Actually, an untreated floor is more friendly than carpet, and if you are going close mic a singer or player, then pad one entire corner of the room from floor to ceiling , place the microphone's back to the padded corner and perform/sing/play into the corner.

You only need to ''treat'' about 4-6 feet of wall either way. Round out the corner so it doesn't trap bass frequency and you will probably get good results.

On your other question...it is sure less work - if not effortless - to capture great vocals with a condenser through a preamp rather than a dynamic mic. The recordings we have made with dynamic mics compared to the ones with condensors stand out in my mind as recordings we wish we'd had a condenser there. Most were ''live on location'' recordings that were being performed through PA systems (live concert). Hard to use condensers in. Though now, we use Shure Beta 87a for lead vocals there and they are great.

However, as was mentioned, condenser mics are fragile and easily broken. For studio they are easy to use and give great results. Even the inexpensive large diaphragm mics help vocalists sound rich and vibrant.
 
ljguitar said:
It sounds like you are silently adding the word ''permanently'' to your statement. I have ''treated'' plenty of spaces temporarily for recording with blankets, quilts, sofa cushions and other soft materials.

And a small untreated space is fairly easy to pad down (treat temporarily). Cloth curtains come into play, as do other ''devices'' to block sound. Actually, an untreated floor is more friendly than carpet, and if you are going close mic a singer or player, then pad one entire corner of the room from floor to ceiling , place the microphone's back to the padded corner and perform/sing/play into the corner.

You only need to ''treat'' about 4-6 feet of wall either way. Round out the corner so it doesn't trap bass frequency and you will probably get good results.
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You might want to check out this earlier thread where I explained how I constructed a very simple sound "booth" using about $35 worth of Home Depot PVC pipe and a mover's blanket...I've gotten some excellent vocal tracks (with both condenser and dynamic mics) using this structure in a totally untreated room:
https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=182021
 
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stage condensors

the neumann KMS105 S/condensor is absolutely off the hook for live work...............it's so focused it's rediculous....

I have my heart set an RE20 at some point............for kick as well as vocals, but it's supposed to be really good on a kick & rap vocals
 
Re-20/27 are good dynamics to start with. They are very forgiving in regards to BG noise. I have also had luck with the NTG-2 (condensor by R0de).

As far as sound treatment goes, you can take care of that very easily for very little $ (some options were presented here already... for my own needs when not in the home booth, I use sorber panels. Not too pricey, kick-a$$ sound absorbtion, and easily folded and stored away when not in use).

Owning a several dynamics and condensors, I find the condensors to be a bit less forgiving when it comes to sound treatment, compared to the dynamics.
 
EdJames said:
Which would be more appropriate for recording Rnb/Pop male vocals in an untreated room through a preamp?

Any suggestions of particular mics that may record a crisp dry vocal?
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I can relate to the room issue.

Not had the pleasure of comparing a vast selection of mics.
But I went thru a few and seemed to be happy enough with the SM-7 Dynamic.

Its made for you to be extremely close, removing the room.
Actually some articles of pro's using the thing in "noisy rooms", such as the LosLonely Boys Heaven track, with some vocals outside the booth, Sheryl Crow did some vocal tracking with it in the mixing/control room. This "noisy room mic" reference drew my interest.
It appears to be built fairly tuff with some Heavy Metal screamers liking it, per some threads around here.

thru a Joe Meek VC1Q pre-amp quenched my gearslutlust still.
A very good combination. IMO.

The SM7 doesn't pick up sounds from the back like most LDC's.
In a crap room, this is where my LDC's with the large open screen, 360deg...were hard to work with. The LDC's were more prone to picking up everything including this "tinny-thin reflection crap" which I always assumed was coming in thru the back of the mic due to the drywall box room.

I wouldn't call it a "crisp" mic, "dry" yes.... I'd think it'd be great for R&B Male vocal.
An LDC you probably want to build a booth of somekind to get the best out of it.

good luck shopping
 
Yoda117 said:
Re-20/27 are good dynamics to start with. They are very forgiving in regards to BG noise. Owning a several dynamics and condensors, I find the condensors to be a bit less forgiving when it comes to sound treatment, compared to the dynamics.
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Gotta agree with this (sorry I edited some out of the quote for clarity)
I picked up a RE27 used for $225 and for my tame room, it makes me sound like i know what i am doing. Condensors need me to pack pillows around my computer, vocals going into the closet, and the pads go on half the time for the same kinds of results (that said i do not have any $400 condensors to compare to, but my Oktava 319 is still a pretty good sounding mic, after i do everything humanly possible to remove the room).

Daav
 
ljguitar said:
Hi Ed...
It sounds like you are silently adding the word ''permanently'' to your statement. I have ''treated'' plenty of spaces temporarily for recording with blankets, quilts, sofa cushions and other soft materials.

And a small untreated space is fairly easy to pad down (treat temporarily). Cloth curtains come into play, as do other ''devices'' to block sound. Actually, an untreated floor is more friendly than carpet, and if you are going close mic a singer or player, then pad one entire corner of the room from floor to ceiling , place the microphone's back to the padded corner and perform/sing/play into the corner.

You only need to ''treat'' about 4-6 feet of wall either way. Round out the corner so it doesn't trap bass frequency and you will probably get good results.

On your other question...it is sure less work - if not effortless - to capture great vocals with a condenser through a preamp rather than a dynamic mic. The recordings we have made with dynamic mics compared to the ones with condensors stand out in my mind as recordings we wish we'd had a condenser there. Most were ''live on location'' recordings that were being performed through PA systems (live concert). Hard to use condensers in. Though now, we use Shure Beta 87a for lead vocals there and they are great.

However, as was mentioned, condenser mics are fragile and easily broken. For studio they are easy to use and give great results. Even the inexpensive large diaphragm mics help vocalists sound rich and vibrant.
Click to expand...

Get rid of the weird font, it's hard to read. You want to stand out , say something worth reading!
 
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