Does the guy at the store know anything

tjohnston

tjohnston

New member
I took everyones advice and planned to buy the best mics I could afford. I was thinking about buying two akg 414 uls and a neumann t 193. The guy at the local music store says those are great mics but why spend the money if you dont have to. I told him that I am going to be recording acoustic guitars, bass, vocal and light percussion. He suggested the ShureSM81 for guitar and the KSM27 for vocal. My set up is made up of a 16 channel mackie CR1604, adat xt 20, rnc compresson, tc-m-one reverb. He says that you will use the sure mics until the day you drop dead. So basicly he is telling me that in home recording one cant really tell the difference between a 300 dollar mic and a 1000 dollar mic. Any comments here?
 
I was in Guitar Center a couple of weeks ago and overheard a coversation between a salesman and a customer shopping for mics. The customer asked what a suspension mount was for, and the GC Expert explained that it keeps the mic "..sortof like in suspended animation"
"Suspended 'animation'?"
"Yup."

:D
 
Well...

I haven't heard the KSM27 so I can't comment but there's certainly nothing wrong with an SM81 -- it would do quite well on acoustic gtr!

Whether it's better than the 414 or the 192 would depend on personal preference, the pres you're connecting to, and the particular application.

In general, sometimes a $300 mic CAN be the better choice over a $3000 mic for a certain context....!
 
I have to agree with blue bear, for a less experienced user, i would start off with a couple mics that arent that expensive. I use shures, and he is right, they are indestructable. I cant comment on the sm81 as ive never used it, but i often track vocals using a ksm27 and it takes a little effort positioning the mic to where you want it, but once you do, the results will be to your liking.
 
I own a pair of Shure SM81's.
For acoustic instruments ranging in size from piano to violin, this mike continues shine. A good pre-amp is essential though.
Check out the 2 samples of SM81 on grand piano here .
They are small diameter condensors that capture a lot of detail.
They are as versatile on acoustic instruments as the SM57 is on electric instruments.

Are there better mic's out there? Probably. But the SM81 would serve any studio quite well, and I'm sure you'll be very pleased with the results.
I'm surprised there isn't more discussion on this mike and its applications, as it is very well suited for many.
 
This place is weird.

Here's a guy ACTUALLY WILLING to spend money on microphones...I'm still waiting for somebody to pop in and recommend a C1 :) Hahaha

Slackmaster 2000
 
I worked a short stint in music retail back in the '80's while I was waiting for a better job to come along. Oftentimes when a salesperson trys to steer you towards a product different than the one you asked for,it is because they make greater comissions and profit margins on those products,even if they are less expensive. My boss and I got into a couple of viscious arguments because I would not try to push Peavey or Crate amps to guys who came in to look at Marshalls.

That being said,did this guy try to steer you wrong? I don't think so. I don't have any experience with the ksm-27,but I have a pair of sm-81's and couldn't be happier with them. They are a standard of the industry staple workhorse that can be found in probably 99% of the major studios around the globe.

Personal preference plays a huge part in mic selection. If it were me in your shoes with your budget,I would probably opt for the sm-81's and the Neumann.......



Peace and good luck!
 
The guy is NOT full of it. He's describing a fundamental law of economics. As you get more and more expensive, you get smaller and smaller gains for each dollar spent. In all likelyhood, the mics recommended to you will probably do the trick rather nicely (I don't own any of those, so I can't comment). You're probably getting ~90% of the performance at ~60% of the price. That's the way everything works (cars, electronics, almost anything you can buy). If you really want that extra 10%, go for it. That is the reason why the mics you originally mention are more expensive; people are willing to pay for that.

One additional thing to consider is versatility: the 414's are multi-pattern, the SM81 is single pattern.

If it was me, and I had done my research with my ears, I'd make the decision based on what SOUNDS the best for the application I'm buying for. Otherwise, it's an intellectual exercise, and it's all going to come down to "it depends".

Good luck! Let us know which way you decide.
 
I love my SM81s - here's a link to a recording I made last summer - I used a pair of SM81s on the vibes (this is an MP3, and the sampling rate was 128k, so any artifacts are caused by the compression).

- Wil
 
tjohnston said:
The guy at the local music store says those are great mics but why spend the money if you dont have to.
Click to expand...

Next time tell him Its not because you have to, but because you want to..you want to start building a decent mic collection when the money is available to do so. Tell him that you don't intend to be a home recordist forever. The mic's he suggested are fine and will work, but its really about what you want and not what you need, not about what he wants or what he uses. I nearly never ask GC folks for help, I research before hand, I walk around and when Im ready to buy I grab a salesmen. IM surprised how often these guys don't even know whats in the store. I know and all I get is catelogs every 2 months. Maybe Tape Op should be sent to the Pro Audio dept.


SoMm
 
mics

NEWS FLASH!! Save your money. The AKG C3000B has the same diaphram as the 414. So whats the differance? Selectable pick-up patterns. Audix mics are great for the money. In fact the VX10 is a killer vocal/guitar mic.
 
You will not go wrong with the 414, or SM-81.

[Whether it's better than the 414 or the 192 would depend on personal preference, the pres you're connecting to, and the particular application.] - Blue Bear

Bingo! The application is the most important thing to look at.

IMHO, most Neumanns are geared for voice. Which is not to say they will not work on other instruments, they will. The AKG, again IMHO, is the best deal on a mic. I've used them on just about everything and I love 'em!

The SM-81 is also a great mic.

The reality of your situation is what are the expected uses of the mic's?

As far as GC employees, those guys do not get to use most of the equipment, so they really don't know. I'm not trying to fault them, or support them.;) As I have been in the music retail business in the past, all most of the guys at those types of shops can do is read... and tell you what gives them the most pocket money!
 
deepwater - the diaphragm is not all the mic consists of, i highly doubt that the C3000 and the c414 sound the same. And for the same price range of around $300, i think the AT4033 is a much better sounding and more versatile mic than the C3000. So does this mean my AT4033 sounds better than a c414? I doubt it. I guess i could be wrong. But if a C3000 sounds the same as a c414, im gonna go buy two c3000s tomorrow.

danny
 
Re: mics

deepwater said:
NEWS FLASH!! Save your money. The AKG C3000B has the same diaphram as the 414. So whats the differance? Selectable pick-up patterns. Audix mics are great for the money. In fact the VX10 is a killer vocal/guitar mic.
Click to expand...

Let's see, some 414's have a capsule based on the C12, so by transitivity, there's no reason to own a C12, since you can get a C3000 for a tiny fraction of the price.

Of course, if anyone ever listened to the C3000, 414, and C12, they would never make a statement like that.

Wait a minute, actually listening? What a silly idea...

Sorry.

By the way, since the advent of the TLM 103, not that many people buy the TLM 193 anymore.
 
I don't think the guy at the store was bullshitting you particularly. He offered good mics built for the applications that you have. He could sell you a Neumann, even if he has to order it, and in spite of profit margins, would probably get a bigger comission. What it comes down to is not that a $300 mic sounds the same as a $1000 mic, but most recorders/engineers I know have found that you need different mics for different sources, and it changes according to the material, the instruments, and the vocalists. If you're going for high end mics, cool. But be damn sure they do what you want them to do.
Many people find that having a broader selection of modestly priced mics gives you the most options, and ultimately better sound. Eventually you get to add a few of the gems of the microphone world to add to the cabinet. I would say don't put all your eggs in one basket. I own a B.L.U.E. Kiwi, but often use C-3 instead, because it's right for that song.
All that aside, I do like the C414, especially for its nice 2 stage pad and bass rolloff. I like it for toms, overheads,strings, and woodwinds, but oddly enough, I haven't had great luck with it on acoustic guitar, where I use other mics. That's just me, 'cause I know plenty of good tracks have been done on acoustic with a 414. All the mics mentioned, both yours, and the salesman's, are good mics that would not embarass anybody's mic drawer.-Richie
 
tjohnston, I think taking into account your set-up, that the salesman made very good recommendations.

I'm actually a little surprised. : )
 
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