Condenser vs Dynamic mic's

CellarCat

New member
I am planning on purchasing a multitrack recorder in the near future and have been reading the tons of info on the net on the subject. I read that a condenser mic is no good for the home studio as it will pick up lots of noises in the house such as your fridge running or the furnace etc.would it make any difference if it is a large or small diaphragm condenser? I have a 58 and a 57 and a couple of electro voice mics that i use with my band can i get a good sound with them and a tube preamp?
 
I know the 57 and 58 will work well. If the EV is good on stage it should be fine too. If you have a separate room and it's reasonably quiet in the first place, a condensor will work fine too. Typically, large dia. are used on vocals and for general purpose and small are for more percussive instruments, but the neat thing about recording is the only rule is "what sounds good IS good"

Happy tracking!
 
It sure would give me great satisfaction to put this topic to bed. I have a somewhat adequately quiet environment in which to record acoustic instruments via microphone, but since I haven't quite swung the purchase of a $300 - $400 condenser mic and source of phantom power, I don't know how bad the background noise will be relative to your typical $100 dynamic mic. Refrigerator, toilet, neighbors, cats. Anybody out there willing to sponsor some serious testing? I'll even send the mics back when I've finished the tests.... or buy them.... :)
And a decent pre would help normalize the results.
 
I may be weird, but... even with my cheap cassette multitrack and an SM57, I shut off the furnace by turning down the thermostat (and it can get cold where I live) and reach in the fridge and turn the temp thingy to off. As well as take the phone off the hook, etc. Now, I don't do this if I'm just trying stuff out, but when I'm trying to get a really good take for posterity, these extraneous noises really mess things up. And I always post a note on the bathroom mirror so I don't go to bed and forget that dang fridge!
 
All cardioid mics, whether condenser or dynamic, will pick up sounds in the room in a similar fashion. I've never had much problem with extraneous sounds from a cardioid, although omni mics can be a nightmare in this regard. But go ahead and get a cardioid condenser --- Condensers are just much better mics, particularly for acoustic instruments and voice. They don't pose any greater problem for room noise.
 
High quality condenser mics are amazing! You can rustle a sheet of paper from 15 feet away and it sounds like a thunderstorm!

I have found it to be true, that a quiet room is necessary when using my condensors.

I built a double wall around my "live " room to get rid of the problem. But here's one for ya;

The mics are so sensitive, that a vocalist's breathing becomes a problem. I have found myself having to edit and "Clean" tracks between lyrics. Even the little "click" that occurs when the tongue comes away from the roof of the mouth, can ruin an otherwise perfect vocal line. Compression sometimes makes it worse!

BUT: The quality of the voice is so much better with a large diaphram condenser, that it's all worth it!

Sincerely;
Dom Franco
 
I'd like to ask for some advice on this topic. Anyone able to answer the following?

1) Any suggestions for low cost but decent sounding condenser mics? I'd like to buy two and keep the total cost around $400 - $500 if possible. I record as a hobby so I don't need pro studio quality, just something that would make a difference in the quality of sound I'd get out of my 4-track.

2) Would cardoid mics really let me isolate acoustic and vocals without each mic picking up both? I'd like to be able to record both simultaneously but on different tracks and am worried that condensers would be so much more sensitive than the mics I have (2 SM57s and an SM58)?

2) Is that so little money for condensers that I'd be better off buying a small mixer would good mic preamps and sticking with the mics I already have? Also, is the Mackie 1202 the only good choice under $400? The price on the Behringer 1602 is lower but is significantly lower quality?
 
DaveO:

1)Are you looking for small or large diaphragm condensers? If small, go for a matched-pair of Oktava MC012s from The Sound Room only which cost $619US. If large, go for the Oktava MC319s from The Sound Room only which cost $629US. The Sound Room's website is www.oktava.com I highly recommend these even though it's higher than your limit; save a little more.

2)Refer to the seperation you're getting from the mic you have; won't be much different.

No. What are you using for pres now?
 
I'm kind of new to recording and had to ask "Why would I choose small or large?". I looked at prices on various web sties and also at debates over small vs. large on this BBS and, based on what I saw, I'd probably go with small diaphragms. It seems like they're generally a little cheaper and I've seen several discussions that said even though there are "preferred uses" for each it won't matter much (at least not for my purposes).

I looked at the Sound Room web site and thought the MC011s would suffice (but they don't come in a matched set). I wasn't sure I'd need the multiple capsules that come with the MC012. I also thought about the AKG C1000 (which seems to get good reviews on this site) and the Shure BG4.1

I'm kind of embarassed to admit what I use for mic preamps right now (remember, I said I'm just getting into this). I run a mic through my guitar multi effects pedal to boost the level and add whatever effects I need. I've also run a mic through my guitar amp and gone from the direct out into the 4-track. Neither gives me great results but I've been able to live with what I get from the multieffects pedal for now. This is the main reason I'm looking for a mixer also - the preamps. Recording my electric and my drum mahcnine are not a problem. I just mic the amp and go right into my 4-track and I run the drum machine right into the 4-track since it has any effects I'd use already built-in.
 
Don't be ashamed; a lot of us have done worse. Do the words "Mix Mic" or "headphones microphone" mean anything to anybody?

What 4-track are you using? Doesn't it have pres on it? I'm assuming it's a mixer/recorder. And if it has AUX SENDS and AUX RTNS, then you can use your FX pedal for FX after you track (record).

As far as large vs. small, it depends on the application (usually; there's still exceptions though). Some people say to only use small diaphragm condensers on an acoustic guitar; I don't subsribe to that theory at all.

Here are some general consenus' which do have a lot of unmentioned exceptions though:

1.Small diaphrams will not color off-axis pick-up and a large diaphragm will.

2.A large diaphragm will pick-up the low-end better than a small diaphragm; especially on vocals, bass drums, toms, bass guitar cabs, uprights, etc.

And, as far as the mics you mentioned, the MC011 is really designed for live vocals (not to say I haven't got a nice sound out of a live vocal for recording something it wasn't specifically designed for), but I've never heard or used a MC011. The C1000s is a nice beginners mic; that's not to say I don't still use and prefer them on a few things over others. The older version was mine, but I feel the MC012 is twice as good. And believe me, it's not just a beginner's mic. Besides, the multi-caps keep you full of options. It's live having a natural EQ. Plus, when you want to buy a large diaphragm, you can simply upgrade for $400US and buy the M1 and have a beautiful sounding large diaphragm mic which sounds better than a lot of large diaphragm mics costing twice that. But I'd forget about the BG4.1 though.

Another thing is that if you ever do any kind of stereo recording, you'll thank yourself later for buying a matched-pair.
 
Recording Engineer,

Thanks for the info. I use a Tascam 414, which does have a mixer and at least cheap preamps in it. You're right - I could use the aux send and returns after tracking (it has 2 per channel) but I just never thought of that. So far I've only used the sends/returns to add last minute effects when I'm mixing down (to my old VCR, and it gives much better results than the cassette deck in my stereo system).

I think you talked me into the Oktavas, though. I've already learned the hard way that buying too cheaply in the beginning usually costs more in the end.
 
Hey, the 414 was my first too.

Oh ****!!! I just remembered you need a phantom power supply to power the condensers (one that powers two mic at once). You wouldn't happen to have one would you? I've never bought one myself (had it in my PA when I first started out) but I think they cost around $100US +/- $25 or so.

But like you said. The long run. Are you in it for the long run? Once you get the Oktavas, a phantom power supply, and some time down the road, a compressor (check-out the RNC by FMR when you do), you'll be making some pretty nice recordings. I've gotta tell you. Some stuff I've archived on CD from the 4-track days will never be duplicated again. And that's a bad thing because some of the nuances were perfect, but never again. Dammmnn!!! Oh well.
 
Maybe one day, you'll be playing back your archives saying: "Damn, I can't believe we got that great of quailty on the equipment we were using back then."
 
Just a few meandering thoughts:

Selecting microphones can be a little mysterious (mystical?) --- Not because the mics themselves are poorly understood, but because our perception of sound is poorly understood. That is why there aren't any obvious answers as to which type of mic is better, etc. I'm biased toward condensers --- I think dynamics are only good for really loud drums! But hey, that's my ears, and others may think differently. Try to develop an understanding of what you like, although admittedly somethimes that can only come with $$ spent! Good Luck!!
 
Hey Daveo-
Go with the Oktava! The Sound Room is whwre I bought mine, and the Mic & the service from there are both amazing.
You can get a nice little phantom power unit with the ART MP Tube Amp..
Can buy one for around 100.00..Works as both a Phantom Power supply & a Mic tube pre-amp.

DJ
 
kenestacio:

Quiet air-conditioners or turning off the air-conditioner are the real remedy.

Dougie Johnson:

You're telling me about The Sound Room's customer service. Taylor Johnson called me himself all the way from Conneticuit on his first day back from his out of the country week vacation. We simply just chatted about a few questions I had about Oktava's history and present, the Elation KM901, the Elation KM902 soon coming out, and the new small diaphragm Taylor Line of mics coming out before the summer for at least 35 minutes; just for fun curiosity. I wasn't buying anything from him or planning to buy anything from him. Great business and great guy!
 
R.E. and Dougie -

I don't have a phantom power supply right now, but I also plan on buying a small mixer and both of the ones I'm considering supply phantom power. For my purposes I think the mixer would be more cost effective than 2 or three ART Tube MPs (or a Dual MP). Actually, I'm glad you guys raised the phantom power issue since that answers my question about whether to buy mics or the mixer first - sounds like the mixer wins.

Thanks for your help.
 
I don't know. I don't think it would be too wise to buy the mixer since you are using a mixer/recorder, unless you're planning to buy a stand-alone recorder in about a year or so. If not, the Dual MP wouldn't be a bad idea if you can swing-it; it will make your tracks even better with the nicer mics. If not, look into the Rolls dual phantom power supply.
 
Hello all,

Slightly off the subject. Do two small diaphram mics, used together, say close together in stereo, equal a single large diaphram mike of the same quality? Just thought it might save a few bucks.
 
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