Choosing a mic for acoustic guitar recording

moresound said:
Here is what I can see .... the first of the videos are using a Beta 56a, second batch looks like a PG81 but can't tell for shure, and the last is an AKG c451b. All combined with the 1/4 out from the guitar and you can see the settings on the guitar.
Click to expand...

WOW! Huge thanks for your patience on looking at these videos! I really appreciate it!!
So we now have these mics:
  • Shure Beta 56A - We are again in the dynamic mics area... I can get one mic for about $145. Acceptable.
    The interesting thing, is that on the description's page on Shure's website, it's recommended for used with drums, not with acoustic instruments. I still think it was used in Dynamite, but not sure about Water Runs Dry. Maybe was it the Beta 57A on Water Runs Dry?
  • Shure PG81 - looks really good, I thought about it at first, before all of the discussions... Can get a unit for $90. Really worth it I guess.
    By the way I'm not sure if it's not the SM137, but anyway it'll be $180 which IS out of budget..
  • AKG C 451 B - looks so nice, but wayyy out of budget! ($400 each..)

Which mic would you pick up now?

LesW said:
Honestly I think you'll be happy with a pair of 603s or 604s. I fully agree by themselves they won't give the guitar sound in the videos...because it's a pickup/mic mix (with lots of compression). You can do that too with the right guitar though...

Les
L M Watts Technology
Click to expand...
It was said once by hairylarry in this thread that it has a lot of features & specs common to the MXL 990 which I already own and most likely I'll get a similar sounding recording. So I guess I'll take the tip.

And about the guitar:
And I know they have real high qualities acoustic guitar, which affect the sound as well. They use high-end series Taylors such as the 614ce, 814ce, 914ce, and w14ce...
I know that the pickup used on these guitars is the new Taylor Expression System.
Unfortunately, I can't afford it - 214ce which is the cheapest model available in Israel costs about $1500...
So what I'll have is a Takamine at first (I don't have the Takamine yet, only an Admira Malaga Classical guitar; I'll buy a Takamine's acoustic very soon, and will check which sound I like..)
The pickup I'll use may be a pickup that comes with Takamine, or maybe I'll add a pickup by myself such as a L.R. Baggs/Fishman/Taylor ES-Go [I read that the ES-Go can be used with any acoustic guitar with some work; gotta do more research about it].
I also haven't considered yet the option of buying a 3/4-size Baby Taylor guitar which has a crunchy and high treble sounding, trying to sound like the more expensive. I'll have to go to the store to see if it's comfortable for me...

Well, after writing this almost E-book... I guess that you understand more about what I'm looking for, and why I'm so obsessed about researching..

Thanks again,
Yuval.
 
If the sound that you're after isn't the sound of the source, it really doesn't matter what mic you use IMO.

The usual mentions, but generally beyond $100 (even per mic).

Shure SM81
Rode NT5
Oktava MK-012

depending on if you want one or two mics. Two mics are normal IMO, but mainly to balance the boom of the sound hole to the twang of the frets. If you can get the sound you want with only one mic, go for it. Just hope the performer doesn't move around a lot while playing.

Shure SM57 is worth a try IMO. It's a standard of sorts. If you have the preamps and rest of the chain to drive it. Given that it's a dynamic mic. Pros and cons either way. I think an AT4033a (used) is a good option if you want to up the budget to $200-ish. Doesn't require that good of a preamp and favors that instrument. Gearwire used to have an article and sample on that one. Good enough to get this trombone player to try one. Not that my results paralleled theirs, but I've upgraded a lot of components since then.
 
Yuval,

I think for that sound I would do this:

Hear that kind of phasey ring in the note tails especially in the high strings?
To do that I think I would mostly use the pickup signal...but I would compress the mic signal with a longer release time so it sustains more. The mic distance is going to make
some comb filter effects, and having it come up relative to the pickup signal in the tails will bring that out. So a sustained chord or note will first be mostly
pickup, then combination of pickup and delayed mic signal (with slight phasy comb filter effects), then finally mostly mic.

I think that's what I hear. You could try it with your current mic if your instrument has a pickup. Or even with two spaced mics, with one closer to the body (but away from the sound hole).

As far as 990 and 603 having similar capsule...yeah. But there will be different diffraction and body reflection effects. We use those a lot to tailor mic response.

Les
L M Watts Technology
 
Shadow_7 said:
If the sound that you're after isn't the sound of the source, it really doesn't matter what mic you use IMO.

The usual mentions, but generally beyond $100 (even per mic).

Shure SM81
Rode NT5
Oktava MK-012

depending on if you want one or two mics. Two mics are normal IMO, but mainly to balance the boom of the sound hole to the twang of the frets. If you can get the sound you want with only one mic, go for it. Just hope the performer doesn't move around a lot while playing.

Shure SM57 is worth a try IMO. It's a standard of sorts. If you have the preamps and rest of the chain to drive it. Given that it's a dynamic mic. Pros and cons either way. I think an AT4033a (used) is a good option if you want to up the budget to $200-ish. Doesn't require that good of a preamp and favors that instrument. Gearwire used to have an article and sample on that one. Good enough to get this trombone player to try one. Not that my results paralleled theirs, but I've upgraded a lot of components since then.
Click to expand...

The mics you mentioned are priced around the $350-$400...
And I'm not sure about the SM57, althought a new one is in budget. You know, it's a dynamic mic that's recommended for many other uses rather than acoustic guitar. Therefore I guess that it's not the ultimate choice..

LesW said:
Yuval,

I think for that sound I would do this:

Hear that kind of phasey ring in the note tails especially in the high strings?
To do that I think I would mostly use the pickup signal...but I would compress the mic signal with a longer release time so it sustains more. The mic distance is going to make
some comb filter effects, and having it come up relative to the pickup signal in the tails will bring that out. So a sustained chord or note will first be mostly
pickup, then combination of pickup and delayed mic signal (with slight phasy comb filter effects), then finally mostly mic.

I think that's what I hear. You could try it with your current mic if your instrument has a pickup. Or even with two spaced mics, with one closer to the body (but away from the sound hole).

As far as 990 and 603 having similar capsule...yeah. But there will be different diffraction and body reflection effects. We use those a lot to tailor mic response.

Les
L M Watts Technology
Click to expand...

WOW! You've described it perfectly! That's exactly the sound I've been trying to get..
I think I'm going to do it that way: record the pickup's signal comes from the guitar [hope to get a good pickup for that reason] that will be the main thing of the recording, and add an aditional track of the mic - that's in order to get some realistic sound of the guitar.

-------

So what about the mic's model? Should I get the one of these?

Can't count the thanks anymore, so thanks again,
Yuval.
 
YuvalAS said:
[*]Shure Beta 56A - We are again in the dynamic mics area... I can get one mic for about $145. Acceptable.
Click to expand...

I use the 56 in the horn section of a swingband (6 in total) Even though it's marketed for drums.
A microphone doesn't have to be used the way that the manufacture suggest it to be used. ;)
 
moresound said:
I use the 56 in the horn section of a swingband (6 in total) Even though it's marketed for drums.
A microphone doesn't have to be used the way that the manufacture suggest it to be used. ;)
Click to expand...

That may be right.
Buy anyway I have to used the mic which moresound has suggested me.. :-)
So would you get the Shure Beta 56A ($145) or the Shure PG81 ($85) or the MXL 603s (pair for $140) or the Shure SM57 ($90-$100)?
So again - for use with acoustic guitar. Sound will be similar to the one that's been captured by Boyce Avenue. Will be combined with the pickup's signal, which will be the lead (I mean the pickup is the recording itself, and the mic will "help" to bring a realistic sound).

I'd be happier to choose one of these 4 - I just don't want to get confused anymore, and there are a few auctions that I could bid really soon and worth a try.. :)
 
It's a never ending battle of staying near budget. And going with something that sounds like the instrument. OR something that sounds like everyone elses recording(s) of said instrument. The main issue with ultra cheap mics, is that they're not that honest of mics and be very hit and miss and/or difficult to get consistently good results. Assuming that they're capable of that in the first place.

And it depends on how you do the math. If you buy mics used, you can get them 1/2 or less MSRP. And if you can ultimately sell them for that amount, are they really $400 mics? I had two SM81's which I got $420 shipped for the pair. Ultimately selling six months later for $400 for the pair plus some gas to meet someone 60 miles out. So if that was a "rent-a-center" type POV, for less than $10 a month (closer to $4) I got two pretty good mics to experiment with. I sold them because they weren't very well matched, didn't handle the louder SPLs of my typical situation, and way too directional for outdoor event type stuff. Plus other quirks related to their directional aspect. Pretty good mics, just more hassle than I could have dealt with at the time. While better technically than my other mics, my other mics were a lot more forgiving for my uses. And failure is never an option.

NT5's can be had for $200 used for a pair, so $100 per mic. You might have to shop around for six months to find that kind of deal, but possible. Lots of deals to be had in this economy. Especially on niche things like recording gear. MXL603's are basically stripped down MXL604's. And other compromises in the usual gear quest.
 
If you're looking for something like an AT4033a on a budget. The AT3035 is kind of neat. Low noise, flatter EQ and other things. Might do well on guitar. But I still think that the 40xx series is a lot more buttery sounding. The 3035 can come across a bit harsh at times. Something which the 4033 I used to have never seemed to display. Even though I had a much weaker back end (preamps) when I had that mic. I got my AT3035 used for $100-ish with shock mount.
 
Shadow_7,
Actually I have no problem with buying used gear, I even mentioned it more than once in this thread.
I did research on used mics from $350 to $2000 MSRP, and couldn't find used for less than $200. (Reminder: my budget is around the $100, so $200 are too much..).

And I think that if a recording with a similar sounds was made more than once, it can be done again and again. Especially when we're talking about the same mic (lets say the Shure PG81, which was used in one of their recording).

By the way, I don't think that a $150 is called a ultra cheap mic. I think that a $5 mic that people buy at the grocery store ARE ultra cheap.

And moresound, I'd be happy to hear your opinion.. I guess one of the 4 mics I have listed about 1 or two messages ago.. :)

Thanks!
 
How soon before you purchase the Takamine YuvalAS?
Maybe you should wait till you know the sound of your guitar first before choosing a microphone for it and your recordings ~ almost putting the cart before the horse.

But if you must get a microphone now and if it was me I would choose the beta 56a but YMMV.

How long before you come to the US?
 
YuvalAS said:
And I think that if a recording with a similar sounds was made more than once, it can be done again and again. Especially when we're talking about the same mic (lets say the Shure PG81, which was used in one of their recording).
Click to expand...

But a lot of the lower budget mics have a sweet spot. And if you say scoot the chair out to use the bathroom and come back to be at a different orientation to the mic, you might not get the sound you want. Until you move again, or the mic moves. My AT3035 seems to sound better at a yard out, than at 6" out. Up close you have to have a fairly monolithic dynamic. At distance you can be a bit more liberal with volume intensities. Or at least that's my current perception(s). With other higher end mics I've had access to, 6mm out or 6' out and they sound about the same. YMMV
 
moresound said:
How soon before you purchase the Takamine YuvalAS?
Maybe you should wait till you know the sound of your guitar first before choosing a microphone for it and your recordings ~ almost putting the cart before the horse.

But if you must get a microphone now and if it was me I would choose the beta 56a but YMMV.

How long before you come to the US?
Click to expand...

I hope I'll buy the Takamine as soon as possible, I think it'll happen next week. I guess that you're right about waiting for the guitar before getting a mic for it.
[ By the way I'm not sure if it's gonna be Takamine. I think it will be since it's really cheap in Israel, and have relaatively to price high quality build, and sounds a bit similar to Taylors (which I really am in love with...) ]
I don't realy must get a mic now, I can make a purchase at anytime - I do it as all of you on eBay/Amazon/Musician's Friends and so on. Although they don't ship to Israel, my shipping carrier provided me an address in the US to which I ask from local stores in the US to ship to. But it takes 2 months shipping. I can wait, that's not a problem.

And maybe I'll come to the US in this July-August. I'm working on it. I mean working FOR it.. :)
But for sure I'm coming within two years from now for a much longer period of time..

Shadow_7 said:
But a lot of the lower budget mics have a sweet spot. And if you say scoot the chair out to use the bathroom and come back to be at a different orientation to the mic, you might not get the sound you want. Until you move again, or the mic moves. My AT3035 seems to sound better at a yard out, than at 6" out. Up close you have to have a fairly monolithic dynamic. At distance you can be a bit more liberal with volume intensities. Or at least that's my current perception(s). With other higher end mics I've had access to, 6mm out or 6' out and they sound about the same. YMMV
Click to expand...
Of course sound depends on environment, locations, and positions. But I still believe that everything that has already been reached, can be reached again.

-----

BTW, I'm not sure if it's the place to ask, but which acoustic guitar would you pick up if you wanted a Taylor sounding guitar for about $400-$500? [a full size guitar is preffered]
 
YuvalAS said:
Of course sound depends on environment, locations, and positions. But I still believe that everything that has already been reached, can be reached again.
Click to expand...

In theory sure. But the probability in this demolition derby called life...? The odds of taking the same breath while standing in exactly the same location. The odds that there's not going to be some sort of power flux from the utility provider, or the same flux as last time... That the humidity, temperature, air pressure, and everything else is exactly the same or at least close enough to be indiscernible to the human ear...?
 
i thought the lewitt lct640 sounds nice: check youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=BH9br7Qt0rA they are giving one away in the moment: lewitt-audio.com/contest/
 
Hey, I know that it's been quite a long time since this post has been updated.. but anyway..

I've got the acoustic guitar. It's a Takamine.

What I did was to go to the local music store, and play a few guitar in the $400-500 price range and found the one who is most similar to the lovely Taylor guitars.. :)
So I've got the Takamine EG-340SC. (I've got it for $450 for who curious.. ) and changed strings to Elixir Polyweb Medium. That helped it sounds really similar to the 814ce.. by Taylor..

So it sounds really great. BUT.. UNPLUGGED.. it sounds like a real Taylor..
When it's plugged in it sounds like a guitar that I don't really wanna have. Especially in the medium frequencies. The high freq. sounds nice but the low freq. is not.

So I guess we're going back to the mics discussion..
Since I've just spent a lot of money on musics (bought a guitar, midi keyboard, cajon, and accessories...) I'm not going to buy a mic now. I want to discuss about buying a mic, and then when I'll find a good deal in eBay or something like that, maybe a used mic, then I'll get it.

Thank y'all in advance,
You've really been helping me for such a long time. I really like this forum and its members.
Yuval.
 
I know this thread is super old, but a friend pointed it out to me and I wanted to help if I still could. Since I record all the Boyce Avenue songs, I can firmly tell you what I am doing. First, except for a few, all the videos are sync'd and the audio is recorded beforehand. I use Audio Technica 4060's in a stereo mic'ing technique for the acoustic guitars. I don't use the direct input. I use Neve 1073 preamps going into Protools. If you're looking for a good low budget microphone, look at Audio Technica. The 40's series are really great. Acoustics matter, but truthfully, most everything wasn't recorded in ideal rooms, but I made some acoustic panels to control the acoustics, which you can see on my youtube channel. Youtube.com/adamwbarber.

I know you're striving for the BA or Tyler Ward sound, but with your gear, budget and inexperience, it's not going to get there. Just trying to be honest. The player and instrument are half the sound, while the other half is the gear and engineer.

Hope this helped someone.

adaM barbeR
 
Avantone ck-1 sounds awesome just a little over $100 at $150 street price. i use two in stereo and it sounds awesome very true to the guitar and doesnt color the tone much.
 
Hey adaM,

thanks for you chiming in here,
your vlogs are fun videos to watch!
Keep up the good work!
 
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