Cheap "Entry-Level" Pro Quality Recording Chain

kidvybes

kidvybes

New member
...I have offered up, in another thread, the idea that a very acceptable and versatile "entry-level pro recording chain" could be had for far less than $1000...this assumes of course that you have a reasonable DAW interface and software...minimal room treatment and modest engineering skills also contribute to the potential results...but with that said, I have recommended the following chain, which can be purchased for about $700 (used):

Shure SM7B > M-Audio DMP-3 > Art VLA (or FMR RNC) > DAW interface

...now the point here is that you would have to spend quite a bit more money to begin to hear any major improvement in the audio quality...the goal is to have the least amount of items that would be capable of handling the greatest number of recording tasks in a minimally respectable manner...

...got any better recommendations?...feel free to ammend my equation...;)
 
Except perhaps for the particular pieces (personal preference entering into the picture,) I agree completly.
 
I think Id rather have software compressors over than the ones you mentioned....

hardware may be better, but in the price range of what you mentioned, I think plugins might be a better route...
 
thajeremy said:
I think Id rather have software compressors over than the ones you mentioned....

hardware may be better, but in the price range of what you mentioned, I think plugins might be a better route...
Click to expand...

...certainly a matter of opinion, but after using only plugins for sometime, I now find that mild (outboard) compression going in gives me a better balanced signal with many singers...more like a limiter than serious compresion...I then tweak to preference in-the-box afterward...
 
kidvybes said:
...certainly a matter of opinion, but after using only plugins for sometime, I now find that mild (outboard) compression going in gives me a better balanced signal with many singers...more like a limiter than serious compresion...I then tweak to preference in-the-box afterward...
Click to expand...

Totally agree. I'll take my VLA's, RNLA's, RNC and DBX 160 over any plugin I own, including the UAD stuff.

I think you picked a great chain...hard to improve on it without going over $1,000. I'm a big fan of the MPA Gold..so maybe that, an RNLA and an SM7b. That would be a much more colored chain, but it sounds really good...you'd end up right around $925 or so.

Frank
 
+1 Vocals are pretty spiky level-wise. If you set the gain to prevent clipping without compression, the recorded level will be pretty darn small. You're losing bit depth with the weaker RMS signal, and when you do finally add the software compressors to get the level up you'll increase floor noise.

But, I've also recorded some softer vocals without compression with decent results and a "natural/live" feel. Different tools/tricks for different takes I suppose.
 
pylet2000 said:
+1 Vocals are pretty spiky level-wise. If you set the gain to prevent clipping without compression, the recorded level will be pretty darn small. You're losing bit depth with the weaker RMS signal, and when you do finally add the software compressors to get the level up you'll increase floor noise.

But, I've also recorded some softer vocals without compression with decent results and a "natural/live" feel. Different tools/tricks for different takes I suppose.
Click to expand...

At 24 bit, loosing depth at low tracking levels isn't a big issue, even less at 32 bit. If you're tracking so hot that you have to prevent clipping in the digital domain then you're running your analog front end way past 0dBVU, so you're screwed up from the get-go. For me, leaving 8dB of headroom for the ME is a good thing...that's usually what I shoot for unless I'm mastering it, then I'll just mix it out of the console hotter.

I will say this about the VLA Pro...it sounds FABULOUS on vocals. You can slam that thing in tracking and never hear it working in the mix. The RNLA is much more noticeable...but you can still hit it pretty hard for that rock vocal sound.

Frank
 
pylet2000 said:
+1 Vocals are pretty spiky level-wise. If you set the gain to prevent clipping without compression, the recorded level will be pretty darn small. You're losing bit depth with the weaker RMS signal, and when you do finally add the software compressors to get the level up you'll increase floor noise.
Click to expand...

You will always increase noise floor with compression, analog or digital, unless your analog or digital system has woefully insufficient dynamic range at some point in the chain.

Especially with an insensitive mic like the SM7B, it's unavoidable. For round numbers, it's -60dBV/Pa. So you're recording a real screamer with peaks at 124dBSPL. OK, now you are at -30dBV, and if you have an extremely quiet preamp (MUCH more important than a preamp with a lot of gain), you have equivalent input noise of say -130dBV, for dynamic range of 100dB. Any decent modern 24 bit converter will exceed that range by at least 12dB, which is plenty of headroom given that peak is already 124dBSPL.

So what if you compress in analogland? Well, you'll raise the noise floor by whatever amount of makeup gain you use. That means less dynamic range going into the converter.

The only case where analog compression would improve effective dynamic range going into a converter is where the analog signal has a greater dynamic range (with allowance for headroom) than the converter is capable of. That is almost never going to be the case with the SM7B, and in any event, is not going to be terribly useful--if your acoustic signal exceeds 100dB in dynamic range, well, that's an unusual signal.

Compression while tracking is more important if you're using something like cassette as a recording medium. With reasonable gear, it's more of a preference or time saver than a requirement, since you can always use outboard during mixdown.
 
That's all true, but some compressors impart a certain mojo to the vocal, bass line, snare or whatever...that's useful as an end unto itself provided you know what you're going for to begin with. I never track with compression for dynamic range control...like I said, if you need to do that you're tracking too hot to begin with.

Frank
 
Weasel9992 said:
That's all true, but some compressors impart a certain mojo to the vocal, bass line, snare or whatever...that's useful as an end unto itself provided you know what you're going for to begin with. I never track with compression for dynamic range control...like I said, if you need to do that you're tracking too hot to begin with.
Frank
Click to expand...

...thank you!...


...and if the VLA is out of your price range there's a number of older Aphex, Symetrix and DBX compressors/limiters that go for less than $100 on eBay pretty regularly...;)
 
You could substitute the Rane MS1-B for the DMP3.

Also, you could substitute the True P-Solo ($499) and still come in under $1,000 (or right at it).

Another option is an all-in-one box like the Meek 1Q, the Toft EC-1, or the ART Voice/Pro channel.
 
tdukex said:
You could substitute the Rane MS1-B for the DMP3.

Also, you could substitute the True P-Solo ($499) and still come in under $1,000 (or right at it).

Another option is an all-in-one box like the Meek 1Q, the Toft EC-1, or the ART Voice/Pro channel.
Click to expand...

...I heartily agree on the MS1-B (a Roger Nichols favorite)...I think the FMR RNP is a better value than the P-Solo (2 excellent pres for the price of one)...and I have refrained from offering all-in-one options because I believe separate components allow for easier upgrading and mix & match experimentation...but all-in-ones that allow for utilizing individual sections while bypassing others would be worthy of consideration...IMHO
 
...since I originally posted this thread, I have become aware of another possible addition to the interchangeable elements of this entry-level pro vocal chain...I recently acquired a KEL HM-7u from a fellow GS, and I gotta say, this is one sweet condenser mic for the price!...no annoying top-end bite, just full-bodied rich tone with a very smooth "airiness" that seems to capture the natural timbre of vocals...as good as the SM7B is as a dynamic vocal mic, the KEL may well be the condenser equivalent at a similar pricepoint...I don't know what those guys at KEL are doing over there, but damn if they don't keep delivering great inexpensive microphones...now, I suddenly have a hankering for one of those HM-2d mics (supposed to sound like a condenser version of the SM7B)...hhmmmmm :D
 
Great thread

kidvybes,

Great thread. Really addresses a hole in my gear. And somehow I think I'm missing something.

First to play the game. Both the Beyer M400 and the AT4054 are excellent vocal mics that are also versatile. You will have to find these used but they can be found for half the price of an SM7 used and sometimes bordering on $100. Call it $150. I can't compare them to an SM7 because I don't have one but they are definitely capable of recording pro quality vocals.

I use 2 DMP2 preamps. It is my understanding that these are the same as the DMP3s but with LEDs instead of meters. They sound great. DMP3 preamps used go for approximately the same amount as DMP3 preamps new. I got one of my DMP2 preamps for under $70. Whyseye gave me the other one. Call it $100.

So my cheapskate ass is up to $250 without the compressor. (Actually $140 or $180 depending on which mic I choose. I work hard at getting my stuff cheap.)

Now the compressor info is where I find this thread so valuable. I don't have one. Somehow I think I need one. I always try to buy everything for fifty bucks but I have been known to splurge and spend $100 or a little bit more. So if I can get a compressor for $100 I will be at $350 for a pro quality recording chain. A genuine steal.

So the ART VLA probably isn't going to happen at that price but maybe a used RNC or one of the alternatives you listed above that might be found under $100.

Any input on this?

Thanks,

Hairy Larry
 
hairylarry said:
Now the compressor info is where I find this thread so valuable. I don't have one. Somehow I think I need one. I always try to buy everything for fifty bucks but I have been known to splurge and spend $100 or a little bit more. So if I can get a compressor for $100 I will be at $350 for a pro quality recording chain. A genuine steal.

So the ART VLA probably isn't going to happen at that price but maybe a used RNC or one of the alternatives you listed above that might be found under $100.

Any input on this?

Thanks,

Hairy Larry
Click to expand...

...watch out for a Symetrix 501 Compressor/Limiter...usually go on eBay/craigslist for less than $100 (except the rarer "toggleswitch version" which uses a Valley People VCA circuit)...rock solid performer...great for vocals and bass...(the 525 Dual Gated Compressor/Limiter is a good buy as well for a 2 channel model)...DBX 160 is another great value, but the word has been out on these for a while so they're bringing higher dollars most of the time...there are others out there as well (Rane, Aphex, etc) but I'm not familiar with which models are preferable...here's a great link which rates the compressors for bass recording (many of which will work great on vocals as well):
http://www.ovnilab.com/

...what I've learned from reading various pro audio threads is that compressors that work well on bass generally will work well on vocals, but not always on drums...and those that are exceptional on drums are less effective on bass and vocals...not a rule, but a somewhat trustworthy generalization...I'm rather new to "hardware" comps, but I must say I like what I've been hearing from the ones I've purchased (Symetrix 501 and RNC)...definately a worthwhile investment...;)
 
The SM7 tends to need a bit more tweaking IMHO compared to the Soundstar MKII, as it is
"thicker" sounding-still love both mics though...

The Studio Projects T3 BTW can be a great vocal mic too.

Chris
 
fmr rnc 1773 question

Hi,

In looking on ebay I see this compressor billed as stereo. Yet there is only one set of controls.

Does this mean I can use it mono and set the controls the way I want, use it stereo with identical compression on both tracks, and use it as two mono channels again with identical compression on both tracks?

But that I am unable to use it as two mono channels with different compression on the tracks?

Have I got this right or am I totally misunderstanding? Because if this is right it certainly adds value over a mono compressor.

Thanks,

Hairy Larry
 
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