Can I successfully record my soprano voice with Focusrite 2i2 3rd generation studio?

Bit moot. It was said that Tom Jones used to WRECK microphones!

I certainly would not put him 50mm from MY Coles 4038! (if I had one, slurp)

Dave.
 
Just heard Richard Tauber, 'Nessum Dorma' in the car and he was 'well back' in the hall acoustic but held his own against the orchestra.
Did not catch the date of the recording (driving!) but Tauber died in 1948 so the technology was pretty primitive. Direct to disc and I doubt there were more a two or three microphones?

Of course, the recording will have had some super 'magic' mastering but it must have been pretty well balanced to start with?

Dave.
 
I've got a new operatic soprano client as of last night and we're going to record three pieces. Two are operatic love songs, and have limited dynamic range but the other has a very wide range. She sent me a home recording and it's almost like a re-run of this topic. She sounds hard and less good than she is, but clearly from these demos she has a good voice, so now I have to think about doing it in a studio, or perhaps live in a church environment.
 
Hello!
I have the mixer now and I believe it is going to work like magic! It didn't come with a USB cable but I already had one(luckily). However, I am having a problem with a noise situation. I searched about it on youtube and found out that it is called ground loop noise. I unplugged my laptop and it reduced considerably but when I turn the channel level a little higher (less than halfway) I still hear it.
What do you think I should use to stop it?

Thank you:)
Daria
 
Hello!
I have the mixer now and I believe it is going to work like magic! It didn't come with a USB cable but I already had one(luckily). However, I am having a problem with a noise situation. I searched about it on youtube and found out that it is called ground loop noise. I unplugged my laptop and it reduced considerably but when I turn the channel level a little higher (less than halfway) I still hear it.
What do you think I should use to stop it?

Thank you:)
Daria

I am sorry Daria, perhaps I was not clear, you do not want to use the USB function on the mixer, the way it is implemented on most I have seen will not suit your MO.

You will need two 'stereo' aka 'TRS' cables to go from the mixer's outputs to the line inputs on the interface*. The ground loop problem is a bit of a setback but fixable I am sure. We need...

Make and model of mixer.
AI we know.
Type of computer, i.e. desktop or laptop and if the latter can it run on battery?
Any other connected equipment, e.g. active speakers, hi fi/ audio system.

*I have sent the same kit setup to my son in France. He has a Soundcraft 8fx notebook USB mixer and a Behringer UMC204HD interface. He mainly records himself on classical guitar and builds songs with an electric. Once in a blue moon he sends dear old dad a bit of his work!

Dave.
 
I am sorry Daria, perhaps I was not clear, you do not want to use the USB function on the mixer, the way it is implemented on most I have seen will not suit your MO.

You will need two 'stereo' aka 'TRS' cables to go from the mixer's outputs to the line inputs on the interface*. The ground loop problem is a bit of a setback but fixable I am sure. We need...

Make and model of mixer.
AI we know.
Type of computer, i.e. desktop or laptop and if the latter can it run on battery?
Any other connected equipment, e.g. active speakers, hi fi/ audio system.

*I have sent the same kit setup to my son in France. He has a Soundcraft 8fx notebook USB mixer and a Behringer UMC204HD interface. He mainly records himself on classical guitar and builds songs with an electric. Once in a blue moon he sends dear old dad a bit of his work!

Dave.

Could you please explain more specifically how I need to connect the mixer to the interface with TRS cables?

I bought Yamaha MG10XU
I have a Casper laptop. It can run on battery.
I am using the headphones that came with the Focusrite Studio.
The only thing that is connected to my computer is an external hard disk.
I unplugged the mixer now and connected my Focusrite interface.

Waiting for your instruction because I am very confused :confused: I don't know how TRS cables work.

It's really nice that you get to enjoy your son's performances:)

Thank you!
Daria
 
Could you please explain more specifically how I need to connect the mixer to the interface with TRS cables?

I bought Yamaha MG10XU
I have a Casper laptop. It can run on battery.
I am using the headphones that came with the Focusrite Studio.
The only thing that is connected to my computer is an external hard disk.
I unplugged the mixer now and connected my Focusrite interface.

Waiting for your instruction because I am very confused :confused: I don't know how TRS cables work.

It's really nice that you get to enjoy your son's performances:)

Thank you!
Daria

Thanks for the info Daria. I have some 'hospital' stuff to sort out ref my wife but later today I can send you a diagram of my ideas for your setup and some, I hope, helpful words.

Someone might get there before me and if so, sobeit.

Laters,
Dave.
 
Thanks for the info Daria. I have some 'hospital' stuff to sort out ref my wife but later today I can send you a diagram of my ideas for your setup and some, I hope, helpful words.

Someone might get there before me and if so, sobeit.

Laters,
Dave.


Hi! I connected the mixer to the interface:) and i still have the noise.

I hope your wife is okay!

Daria
 
Hi! I connected the mixer to the interface:) and i still have the noise.

I hope your wife is okay!

Daria

Thank you Daria, she is fine just time consuming treatment.

I hope the picture attached helps (I Tippex out some lines hoping to make things clearer? Not sure it helped!) But I suggest you don't do that yet for two reasons...
Yes, we need to get this ground loop sorted but also, an incremental approach usually helps understanding (well, it helps THIS ancient brain anyway!)

Just power up the mixer and plug in some headphones. Leave the H/P level at zero for now.
Plug in your microphone and set 'gain' and channel level as shown in that scabby instruction sheet. A finger click should give you some indication on a channel light or/and in the LED meter strip. ( 'pan' control to centre for now)
Now don the headphones and advance that level. You should get your voice in the cans? If not you will need to check the settings. Once there you can look at the reverb effect and probably go for a whiff of 'Concert Hall'? I am pretty sure you can have that effect in your phones but NOT record it.

At this stage with JUST the mixer connected you should be getting a very clean and clear signal devoid of any hums or buzzes. If not we shall have to investigate further and it is possible but unlikely IMHO, that you have a faulty mixer.

When you are happy with the sound and the FX investigate the compression. It would have been better to get a peak limiter but such are rare to non-existant on budget mixers. I am sure however that you will be able to apply a very gentle amount of compression to keep the level up but not overload the 2i2.

Next step, connect the Stereo Outs to the 2i2 line inputs. The TRS cables are just 6.5mm stereo jack plugs each end. You could probably use TS or mono cables but, especially in view of the GN problem, balanced is much better.
So now you just have mixer feeding AI and AI plugged into laptop, the latter is on battery power, no charger. Transfer the headphone plug to the F'rite and check the sound. It should be very much the same as that out of the mixer.

That is all for now. Please let me know your results.

Ah! Forgot "see text". That feed from the AI can go back to the mixer and that means you do ALL your monitoring via the mixer. There is however a possibility of feedback. No harm but can be quite startling! Leave out those connections for now.

Dave.
 

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Oh, the memories this brings back. My sister retired from opera in Germany and I did her demos early on. Most likely there are a handful of things you'll have to address to get successful recordings. I recommend first using a microphone designed for high sound pressure level like a Shure sm-57. If that's out of your budget range, there are knock off mics designed similar for less at retailers like musicians friend. Others have already mentioned adjusting levels on the fly so I don't need to mention that and the other suggestion I'd have is use of compression which others have mentioned as well. Usually once those three things were done/addressed, getting usable levels was little problem. You might also consider downloading a sound pressure level phone app and take some test readings with it to help you with microphone placement. Generally I've gotten good results keeping the level down to no more than 3/4 of the mics rated maximum SPL capacity. What you're wanting to do is difficult, but it can be done with the right Mic and the focusrite interface you have and software/hardware that you have. Just hang in there, have patience and you've found a good site with helpful folks willing to lend their expertise. Good luck!
 
Hello!

I made a new recording and uploaded it (Ganymed home recording) on my youtube channel (Derya Kayaalp) after everything I learnt from all of you! I would love it if you gave me feedback.

Thank you so much! :)

Daria
 
I gave it a couple of plays on both headphones and speakers.

The reverb level seems to match the piano very well. Did the piano recording come with the reverb or did you you add it to both? It is a bit like I would hear in the church I attend, plenty of space but good clarity.

As for sound quality (and I'm the farthest thing from an expert on opera!!!) it sounds pretty natural, and well balanced. I didn't hear any obvious distortions or overdriven vocal passages.
 
The first impression is that it's a real piano in a real space. Then your voice comes in and sounds like you are in the same space - and this is a common fault, people combine different perspectives badly - you've done it well. After 3.00, in the louder section the sound gets harder - did you leave enough headroom? It's not really distortion, it just gets harder?

You're making good progress though. This captured your voice quite well.
 
I agree with Rob, a really good start but the level is crowding 0dBfs.

Was that the level on the original recording Daria or has it been 'normalized' or otherwise modified? If the original level you are very lucky not to hit digital distortion, as Rob says, you haven't quite but pushing luck!

IMVHO the piano is perhaps a smidge too loud? This might be pushing you to 'compete' with it and the net result is a track at the limit. Hasten to add I am NO kind of mixer/musician/mastering engineer, just my opinion fwiiw. I have only so far listened on headphones, KG K92s but will put it through my Tannoy 5As later today.

But yes, overall really nice and I must hold my hand up and admit that whilst I enjoy a great deal of 'classical' music (got R3 as I type*) I have never quite 'got' opera. My wife is very keen on La Boheme Pavarotti of course and I enjoy that too.

*Been monitoring that for 10mins in Audacity and the signal has been down at -43 some of the time but not peaked above -12dBfs so far and I would expect neg ten to be as far up as it goes. Of course radio, even classical R3 has to be fitted to suit all listeners, peeps in cars for example so you can do better than neg ten but I would say -6dBfs as the absolute loudest peak?

Dave.
 

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There's handy! The very next piece on R3 was 'Largo al Factotum' from The Barber of Seville. (the one with the very fast diction) This piece never got past -10dBfs. The singer was also slightly forward in balance compared to even the full orchestra.

Dave.
 
I a sorry Daria but the piece did not sound right on my monitors. The piano was massive! The two versions are the original as MP3 and a mono MP3.

Then something very odd happened when I mono'ed the track,the level dropped by a good 10dB.
Compare that with the lieder I grabber off YT? The stereo picture is central and of a creditable size. When mono'ed the level barely changes.

Please don't take offence, this stuff IS hard to learn and get right. Your recording is fine as an example of your voice but could be made better? Then there is the fact that I am very hard of hearing now AND not in any sense a 'professional' ! That is why I include the other piece as a check and example.

If I might hazard a solution? IMHO the piano signal needs to be mono and panned centre or maybe slightly left of centre*? Then you are put slightly right of that and just a touch louder?

*I thought I had changed this lappy to 'proper' English spelling! Anyone got an idea how?

Dave.
 

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  • Daria and piano01mono.mp3
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  • dario and piano or.mp3
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After Dave's comments, I gave a listen to his files. It sounds MUCH louder than what I get from her Youtube video. So I captured the audio and sure enough, there's a big difference. Attached a pic comparing the files, along with my capture. The LUFS on what I got is -14, but Dave's was -8.9. Also, Dave's files is very compressed compared to what I got.

Was a second file posted? Something seems amiss.
 

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  • Daria - Ganymed From YouTube.mp3
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  • Ganymed compare.jpg
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Hi Rich. I posted 3 files. One of Daria's original YT, a second of the same thing in mono and a third of a another soprano and piano. But yes, the levels are wrong. This is because I always have the sound card settings in my PCs set to max so that I get consistent results. I had not realized that in this Lenovo T510 W10, (relatively new to me) that slams YT sounds to 0dBfs in Audacity. May I ask how you 'grab' YT sound and what settings you chose please.

I am used to listening to R3 from a W7 desktop (and IE11) and the Via High Definition card is always similarly set to max. R3 never tops more than -8 dBfs V rarely -6 no matter how many 'ffffs' they give me!

The only way to decide on the original level as I see it is for Daria to attach a 320k MP3?

However, listening to the piece on my living room hi fi (via the desktop) still gives a massive piano and very 'spacey' sound to the voice. The recording is clear enough and easily good enough to show that Daria is a very talented artist but a 'proper' stereo recording it is not.

I would really like to know how to solve this YT level problem. (Rob A also found the levels high?)

Dave.
 
Hi Dave,

I use a program called Youtube Downloader HD. How to download Youtube videos It seems to be the best overall downloader I've tried. It doesnt' run as a plugin, so it doesn't really tie you to keeping a browser open.

Once I have the file captured in MP4 format, I use VLC to convert to MP3 format. Very straightforward, and no enhancement to the signal.

I noted a big difference in the perspective of our two files. DId you give the MP3 that I uploaded a listen? Also, There are a bunch of "enhancements" in Win10 that can really screw up a proper audio file. I turn all of them off on my system. If you just got the Lenovo, make sure you check the sound devices.

Let me know what you find!
 
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