Bass Roll-off and -10 -when to use
- Thread starter Titanship
- Start date
mikemoritz
New member
chessparov
New member
Titanship, Craig Anderton, noted recording author, has told me that
he uses the bass roll-off, especially when he's recording vocals in order to
avoid popping and/or overloading the mike.
I think the -10db switch when engaged is handy because you can get
closer to the mike, thereby cutting down on background noise if you're
recording at home or live. For high sound pressure level sounds like
drums, it's smart to engage it to help protect the microphone.
he uses the bass roll-off, especially when he's recording vocals in order to
avoid popping and/or overloading the mike.
I think the -10db switch when engaged is handy because you can get
closer to the mike, thereby cutting down on background noise if you're
recording at home or live. For high sound pressure level sounds like
drums, it's smart to engage it to help protect the microphone.
Cave Dweller
New member
basicly, bass roll off is used when the mic is used close to the source, when proximity effect enhanses the bass to the point that it is undesirable. so instead of using EQ, you can engage the roll off. the -10 switch is used when the source is too loud and the mic distorts.
Peace,
Matt
Peace,
Matt
Wide Awake
New member
I use the 4033 for acoustic steel-string and I use the bass rolloff if I feel the bass is too boomy or I don't want it too take up too much space in the mix. If I'm playing a solo guitar piece I never use it, but I use it frequently when recording a part that will sit in a busy mix that will include bass guitar.
If you are recording a jumbo acoustic you are more likely to use it than if you are using a smaller-bodied guitar. A lot depends on the instrument and how aggressive you are playing....you just have to experiment. Lay down a few sample tracks when you are recording and try to make a judgement. I keep a few CDs on hand that feature great acoustic guitar tracks that I can refer to.....that really helps me make an objective decision. I don't like to labor on these kinds of decisions like mic placement and using pads, etc. because they take too much attention away from my playing and creative mood.
I hate how tiny the switches are on the 4033......what a pain it is to use them.....but they DO work.
I
If you are recording a jumbo acoustic you are more likely to use it than if you are using a smaller-bodied guitar. A lot depends on the instrument and how aggressive you are playing....you just have to experiment. Lay down a few sample tracks when you are recording and try to make a judgement. I keep a few CDs on hand that feature great acoustic guitar tracks that I can refer to.....that really helps me make an objective decision. I don't like to labor on these kinds of decisions like mic placement and using pads, etc. because they take too much attention away from my playing and creative mood.
I hate how tiny the switches are on the 4033......what a pain it is to use them.....but they DO work.
I
using roll-off
I think the non use of roll-off is a contributing factor to many project studio recordings having a moshy lo-mid sound and a fluffy low-end.
A basic guide. Use any roll-off around 80 - 100Hz – whether it be at the mic stage, pre-amp stage or on the console – for EVERYTHING except low instruments like kick, bass and low keyboard sounds.
Stated another way; ALWAYS use roll off except when recording low-end instruments.
Doing this will give much better definition to the entire mix. Doing so will tighten up the low-end and give instruments like voice, guitars and keyboard more space in the mix.
I think the non use of roll-off is a contributing factor to many project studio recordings having a moshy lo-mid sound and a fluffy low-end.
A basic guide. Use any roll-off around 80 - 100Hz – whether it be at the mic stage, pre-amp stage or on the console – for EVERYTHING except low instruments like kick, bass and low keyboard sounds.
Stated another way; ALWAYS use roll off except when recording low-end instruments.
Doing this will give much better definition to the entire mix. Doing so will tighten up the low-end and give instruments like voice, guitars and keyboard more space in the mix.
sonusman
Banned
While the low roll off is covered quite well here already (although, I don't neccesarily agree that it is needed in every case some suggest is should be used in, nor do I think it always makes a difference in certain applications....as Bruce like to say, YMMV) I think one thing needs to be clarified about the -10dB switch.
It WILL not "protect" the mic from high SPL on the diaphram! That diaphram is going to move no matter what! Switching that switch on or off will do NOTHING to stop that!!!
The only "protection" you can provide your microphones diaphram is to either move the mic farther away from the sound source, or to lower the level of the sound source. Luckily, most microphones can handle quite high SPL's, usually well over 110dB. I can tell you this, if the source you are micing is more than 110dB, you WON'T want to be the guy having to go and move that mic!!! But generally, most things do not get that loud. Maybe the snare drum of a very heavy handed drummer, but I find this to be rare.
It is used to lower the mics output sensitivity, attenuating the output of the mic so that the preamp may work in a more effective level of attenuation. It does nothing more and nothing less. If the microphone is outputting too much voltage, the mic preamp will have to attenuated that much more. With heavy attenuation, mic preamps start to behave quite strange. So, by lowering the output of the mic so that the mic preamp doesn't have to attenuate as much helps keep the preamp working in a range where it has better control over the amplification (preamps DO have a "sweet spot" in terms of attenuation. It is never in the extremes). I am sure that skippy can shed some more technical light on this subject. I just learned long ago (through a LOT of trial and mostly ERROR that you don't want to have the mic preamp attenuating too much if you want better control over levels. This applies to recording as well as live sound by the way....)
Just a little clarification.....Knowledge is good!
Ed
It WILL not "protect" the mic from high SPL on the diaphram! That diaphram is going to move no matter what! Switching that switch on or off will do NOTHING to stop that!!!
The only "protection" you can provide your microphones diaphram is to either move the mic farther away from the sound source, or to lower the level of the sound source. Luckily, most microphones can handle quite high SPL's, usually well over 110dB. I can tell you this, if the source you are micing is more than 110dB, you WON'T want to be the guy having to go and move that mic!!! But generally, most things do not get that loud. Maybe the snare drum of a very heavy handed drummer, but I find this to be rare.It is used to lower the mics output sensitivity, attenuating the output of the mic so that the preamp may work in a more effective level of attenuation. It does nothing more and nothing less. If the microphone is outputting too much voltage, the mic preamp will have to attenuated that much more. With heavy attenuation, mic preamps start to behave quite strange. So, by lowering the output of the mic so that the mic preamp doesn't have to attenuate as much helps keep the preamp working in a range where it has better control over the amplification (preamps DO have a "sweet spot" in terms of attenuation. It is never in the extremes). I am sure that skippy can shed some more technical light on this subject. I just learned long ago (through a LOT of trial and mostly ERROR that you don't want to have the mic preamp attenuating too much if you want better control over levels. This applies to recording as well as live sound by the way....)
Just a little clarification.....Knowledge is good!
Ed
Tekker
New member
Ed, in my NT2's owners manual it says that it has a max SPL of 135 and 145 with the 10db pad, which to me kinda implies that the mic can handle louder sounds with the pad. What you said makes alotta sense (as usual ), but then what is the manual talking about and which one is the actual SPL level of the mic?
-tkr
), but then what is the manual talking about and which one is the actual SPL level of the mic?-tkr
clarification on -10
I'm glad YOU guys understood my question. The way I asked it was confusing. I like the way DOT puts it: "the non-use" or "use."
So, Sounusman, I mainly record acoustic guitar, low-level drums, acoustic (pickup) bass guitar, synth keys, vocals. I run through an ART MP pre-amp. Should I "use" the -10 function to allow my pre-amp to work (sound) better?
Thanks much- titan
I'm glad YOU guys understood my question. The way I asked it was confusing. I like the way DOT puts it: "the non-use" or "use."
So, Sounusman, I mainly record acoustic guitar, low-level drums, acoustic (pickup) bass guitar, synth keys, vocals. I run through an ART MP pre-amp. Should I "use" the -10 function to allow my pre-amp to work (sound) better?
Thanks much- titan
sonusman
Banned
Tekker, your mic can 145 dB SPL AT ALL TIMES. The only thing that changes is the output of the mic when you engage the -10 switch.
Titanship, it really depends how loud your sound sources are. Most of this stuff that you listed wouldn't fall into the "loud" catagory, except maybe the low level drums.
The -10 roll off is just another gain stage in your signal chain really. Whether you decide to use it depends on any number of factors, mainly, what your ears tell you! I cannot advice you on when to use it because when you use it will depend on whether you want a hotter signal to the preamp or not. Experimentation is the key here. Try both ways and adjust your preamp accordingly, and see which sounds best to you. Higher output on the mic with more attenuation on the preamp can work just as well as lower output on the mic with less attenuation on the preamp. Neither way is wrong, unless one of those ways doesn't sound as good as the other to your ears. Dig it?
Ed
Titanship, it really depends how loud your sound sources are. Most of this stuff that you listed wouldn't fall into the "loud" catagory, except maybe the low level drums.
The -10 roll off is just another gain stage in your signal chain really. Whether you decide to use it depends on any number of factors, mainly, what your ears tell you! I cannot advice you on when to use it because when you use it will depend on whether you want a hotter signal to the preamp or not. Experimentation is the key here. Try both ways and adjust your preamp accordingly, and see which sounds best to you. Higher output on the mic with more attenuation on the preamp can work just as well as lower output on the mic with less attenuation on the preamp. Neither way is wrong, unless one of those ways doesn't sound as good as the other to your ears. Dig it?
Ed
chessparov
New member
Well... since you guys "asked for it"! I seem to remember that on the AKG
C3000B I sold, it had a -10db switch that was PRE-attenuating to help
protect the mike/or for close miking. Does anyone know for sure?
C3000B I sold, it had a -10db switch that was PRE-attenuating to help
protect the mike/or for close miking. Does anyone know for sure?
I wonder why the manual didn't just say that in the first place. 
Blue Bear Sound
New member
Just to re-iterate what Ed said -- the "pad" DOESN'T protect the CAPSULE... ever!
Think about it - how is an attenuator going to protect against the physical motion of the capsule's diaphragm as sound waves hit it???
And any physical interference with the diaphragm's motion in an attempt to minimize overload would result in severe response aberrations.
Bruce
Think about it - how is an attenuator going to protect against the physical motion of the capsule's diaphragm as sound waves hit it???
And any physical interference with the diaphragm's motion in an attempt to minimize overload would result in severe response aberrations.
Bruce
chessparov said: