Again, Guitar Center Oktavas

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bongolation

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OK, so Guitar Center has a big sale on Oktava microphones.

MK219s are a mere $99 and MK319s are $199 or 2 @ $149 (I also
have a raincheck for the MK319 w/preamp for $199 from last
month).

OK, so it's been stated here that the Guitar Center Oktavas
are rejects.

1] Who states this and what is his interest in the question?

How does he know, and from what source? This really sounds
like unsubstantiated badmouthing from a competitor who's
being undersold.

While I would not doubt such monkeybusiness on principle,
the practical fact is that they couldn't produce that many
rejects, as GC buys THOUSANDS of these and is the largest
distributor of these Oktava models, ergo, Oktava's making
more bad than good 219/319 microphones just to supply GC.

This doesn't make sense. GC gets its prices because it
pays cash in advance for large lots all its purchases from
manufacturers and can therefore cut some sweet deals
on gear. The GC Oktavas I've seen do not come with the
fancy boxes, cables and accessories, so some corners have
been cut, but this isn't the same things as selling defective
product.

2] If indeed the QC is not first rate on these mikes then they
_should_ be "tested" by the buyer before acceptance as far
as that's possible. It sure sounds like good general advice,
but can anyone here give me some objective information on
how one would intelligently test these microphones in a
store demo-room setting prior to acceptance?

3] The MK219 and the MK2319 are alleged to have identical guts,
the difference being entirely in the housing, which somehow
is supposed to produce a more "open" sound. Looking at both
mikes, I just don't see it. Has anyone determined any true
difference in sound or does the MK319 just sound better
because it looks foxier?

At the price, these GC Oktavas represent a super deal if they
are reasonably true to type - but if they are junk, then, well...

Thanks for any help on getting some decent microphones cheap.
 
For what it is worth....

I don't want to be **personally** involved in the controversy, but the idea that GC accepts rejects from a very small volume dealer seemed rather "fishy" to me also. So I emailed the world-wide distributor, A & F McKay.
Here is my original question:
===
What is the *real* story about OKTAVA brand mikes, the USA Distributor: Guitar Center, and the Sound Room (Taylor Johnson), who are not an official distributor, but claim to have higher quality versions, and that the Guitar Center gets their rejects ?
As you may be aware, there are those who are claiming that the Sound Room picks through the production lots to get the higher quality units, and then returns them to OKTAVA who forward them for sale a Guitar Center. Is there ANY truth to this ? If there were, and I was the much higher volume dealer (GC) I would want this vicious rumor squelched as expeditiously and unequivocally as possible. Silence on the issue tends to lend credibility to the claim. If there is something to bring to light on this, check out the comments (search for OKTAVA) at https://homerecording.com/bbs/forumdisplay.php?forumid=27
Thanks,
Rick ****
===
Here is their reply:

Hi Rick, and thanks for your enquirey.
We are well aware of the rumours spread by the Sound Room, and Mr Taylor Johnson, and are talking to our solicitors and to Guitar Center about what legal action to take.
The story put about by Taylor johnson is not only completely untrue, but also completely implausible.
Oktava sell their microphones exclusively through A & F McKay Audio Limited on a worldwide basis, and we have appointed Guitar Center as our USA distributor. They recieve the microphones direct from us in the UK where
they are QC'd and repacked. They are NOT seconds or rejects, and the suggestion that there is a factory anywhere in the world that makes upwards of a thousand rejects per month and less than 20 "top drawer" products - yet remains in business - is absurd!
The truth of the matter is that Mr Johnson has managed to find an illegal supply of the mics, through a leak in the factory (which the management are endeavouring to track down, but being a Russian factory of over 3000
employees many of whom do not work on the microphones it is not an easy task!)
**** These mics are stolen from the production line and are not as he claims "specially selected".**** (my stars, Rick)
We have made public these details on rec.audio.pro, and were greeted with a large amount of abuse from Mr Johnson and some of his colleagues/friends/cronies. There is also a statement to the above effect
on our website at www.oktava.net.
You will notice if you visit mr Johnsons site that he does not call the microphones Oktava, but RTT, this is because he does not have the right to advertise his products as oktava. RTT microphones are not covered by any Oktavawarantees/guarantees. -
whereas Oktava microphpones naturally are.

Due to the small level of sales that Mr Johnson takes from us we have desisted from taking a heavy hand so far, but the recent allegations made by his organisation have led to the instigation of legal proceedings.

For further information on releases of genuine Oktava product please visit www.oktava.net and join the mailing list there. You will then be informed of the dates of release of new product into Guitar Center stores.

I hope this has been informative
Fergus McKay
=====
Make of the above what you will.

Peace,
Rick
 
It would be easy to call or write The Soundroom and see if the Oktava mics come with a warranty. If they don't, buy them from someplace that does. Gear is a big investment and a warranty can be valuable.

I feel the heat of this thread already starting to build. I love controversy.
 
The way I understood things was that Taylor Johnson never said that Guitar Center carries "defective" mics. To be honest, I've never heard him say anything at all because I've never talked to him personally. The story we've gotten from those who have talked to Taylor have said that the Sound Room inspects their shipments and actually listens to each one to make sure that they are all of an equal quality and as nearly matched as possible, something that Guitar Center doesn't take the time to do. This is a far cry from calling the Oktava brand defective. The closest thing that I can figure is when others (not including Taylor) have made claims that the Russian mics are built under suspect quality control and that is why the Sound Room inspects them privately. To the best of my knowledge, no one has ever made a claim that Taylor Johnson himself said this or believes this.

For the record, I tried the Oktava link and it doesn't work. I hope they put a little more effort into their mics than they put into their web design.
 
The Axis

Try:
http://oktava.tula.net/index_e.htm

It also seems odd that the mikes picture on the Russian Homepage are in the Cedar Boxes that the Sound Room sells:

[image]http://oktava.tula.net/mk012_2.jpg[/image]




It does seem like the accusations are fairly serious in either direction.
It seems as though either:
1. Sound Room is selling Hot mikes. or
2. AF McKay is falsely accusing them of selling hot mikes.

Either way, somebody is going to get very grumpy !

Note that I have no connection to either party and don't even own any OKTAVA mikes !

heading for the bunker now,
Rick
 
I don't own any either! I'm just concerned that the Oktava people are seeking legal action based on rumor rather than fact. I've never heard anyone claim that Taylor Johnson told them that Guitar Center's mics are defective, just not as consistent as the ones he hand picks. As far as his mics being hot...I don't know what to say about that. I doubt it.
 
I don't know who started the rumors, but here is just one quote from a prior thread on this forum. All can easily be dug up with the search function.

Warning:
Never buy an OKTAVA from the Guitar Center. Since OKTAVA's quality control is not too good. Or I should say it's so good that they claim they reject a large amount of their mics. But yet, they still sell them and places like the Guitar Center (who don't buy on bulk) buy those rejects that those dealers who buy in bulk and don't want.

That was just a quick example that jumped out at me. I don't know if Taylor Johnson, himself, has ever said anything on the issue.

The AF McKay reply, seems to clearly accuse the mikes of being "hot", however.
 
The Axis said:
I don't know who started the rumors, but here is just one quote from a prior thread on this forum. All can easily be dug up with the search function.



That was just a quick example that jumped out at me. I don't know if Taylor Johnson, himself, has ever said anything on the issue.

The AF McKay reply, seems to clearly accuse the mikes of being "hot", however.

He also seems to be refuting the claim you quoted.

Anyhow, I'm going to GC tomorrow morning and go through a few of these in their recording room to see if I can find a couple MK219s that are "good."

I would be exceptionally grateful to anyone who can tell me what to look for and how to test quickly the quality of the individual microphones. I am ignorant of the drill, but they will be out of these soon, so I have to move on this while there are a few left to choose from.

Thanks!
 
Well, I now have a total of 6 MC012s (because I like them for large choral location recording overheads, among other things). 4 I bought from Guitar Satan, 2 from The Sound Room. So yes, I have personally talked to Mr. Johnson.

Of the 4 from GC, two have had problems: one had a cold solder joint on the capsule bias resistor and generated random bursts of LF noise, one was wired pin 3 hot (not good for XY use). Come to think of it, one had a bad omni capsule as well, which I didn't find until recently.

The two from The Sound Room have been perfect, as has the spare preamp body I laid in because the ones I got from GC were so damned unreliable, and I can't afford downtime when the talent is on the stage and warmed up.

I bought the first ones from GC because I was in a blind hurry. I now have the luxury of buying from a vendor who actually *does* do some additional QA (and who, by the way, has done the repairs on my wounded GC-sourced mics).

I have no replationship with either organization other than as a customer. But if you'd like to read an amusing story about my experiences, check this (among many other threads here):

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?threadid=20045

If you are concerned about the commercial aspects of this controversy, I'd recommend that you read the archival articles on this on rec.audio.pro. The Sound Room has the support of a great many well respected industry veterans, and the general level of respect for McKay (about whom I know nothing) seems to be dropping precipitously.

One other item for your consideration: The Sound Room is now marketing a custom line of mics (the Taylor-Hohendahl Engineering line) built to their specs *by the RTT folks, in the RTT factory*. This would appear to run counter to McKay's "the mics are hot!" claim, since I highly doubt that any Russian thieves would have direct access to the production line to build custom product, or that RTT would knowingly sell custom product to someone who was primarily buying hot mics with their label. Frankly, that claim does nothing but speak of immaturity and desperation to me: The Sound Room has done more to actually make Oktava product known to production people in the Americas than McKay has.

That's all conjecture, though. All I know for sure is that when an Oktava has a problem, you can't take it back to GC (unless you get _very_ lucky): they do not want to hear about it. The Sound Room, on the other hand, will happily fix dead GC Oktavas for you for a fee. And, if you somehow get a duff one purchased directly through TSR, they will support it.

Bottom line: my money goes where the support actually *exists*, based on my own experiences. Please do research it for yourself, though, and make your own judgement. I haven't spoken to Mr. Johnson about this specifically, and I doubt that he'd comment given that litigation appears inevitable, but I suspect that the current McKay flap will end up doing far more damage to MkKay then to TSR. Making accusations of trafficking in stolen goods was not a wise move, I think.

Meanwhile, I'm seriously lusting after some of those THE mics. Your mileage may vary...
 
The Axis

I have tried listening to acoustic guitar through many mikes at GC, but it is virtually impossible to really "test-out" the mike, because the background noise level is so high. You can get a feel for the general tonal qualities, and compare one to another, but that is about all.

If I were buying one there, I would insist on the right to return it if it didn't sound good in the studio. No mike is a bargain if you can't use it. If they won't let you do that, then mail-order one. They will always let you return things.

Also, when you consider that there are many mikes, for just slightly more money, that are made by reputable manufacturers with excellent QC and warranties, it makes me wonder if it isn't worth the extra to consider some other mikes at the same time. When you actually see an OKTAVA up close, you will see what I mean.

Rick
 
Oktava Rumours

The "blasphemous" one has been doing this every where in this forum for quite sometime.
I once responded against the amount of bias I could "smell". It had happened so much that it gave me a very bad taste from even visiting this forum.
I say now will the real culprit please stand up? Or will he bury his head, now being to close to the flame???
It's great that someone has put this to the test.
 
You Called?

Don't have time to say anything right as I'm too busy actually recording music... But I'll be back this weekend.

I probably would have never seen this thread as I don't have much to hang here anymore, but lucky I was here for over a year with full dedication and made a BUNCH of friends ho are watching my back. THANK YOU guys. And you KNOW I back-up my friends; does Dragon on SPAM and SP on burning speeds ring a bell to anyone. Also, I've fully backed-up my friend Mr. Taylor Johnson PLENTY of times here before. THIS is NOTHING new. It DOES take A LOT of my time where I could actually be recording (what a concept), but I WILL do ANYTHING for my friends. You can count on it!

You left a message. Now here's my message.

"I'll be back."

No, that's NOT a threat, just an analogy, so please don't get your feathers all riled up just yet.

Weston Ray
Resonance Frequency Recording
Orangevale/Sacramento, California
United States

So what's your REAL name and what city do YOU live in?
 
This Oktava subject has been beaten to death on R.A.P. Here are some points that stood out to me.
One of the gentlemen over there has done a lot of work on the Oktava mics, and knows his way around their circuit boards pretty well. He says two common things he sees are boards that have a heavy amount of flux on them that end up running into trouble later on, and boards with bad/leaky components that can have intermitent problems. Some other things he sees are parts inconsistency; resistors "jammed in series" where normally there would be one, and cheaper aluminum electrolytic FETs substituted for the wet slug tantalum FET that is normally used. He says that another common defect is the wet slug tantalum FET wil fail and spew green foam on the circuit board, killing a lot of the high end. I've read posts from people who cross threaded the body of their 012 while screwing on a different capsule, ruining it in essence. I've read many posts from people who are pretty sure that Guitar Center puts returns and rejects right back into stock. One guy went in and tested 19 of them and found 1 that sounded "amazing" but the grill cap had come unglued. 6 sounded good, 3 of those 6 were clearly better than the rest. 2 sounded "bad".
I guess when it comes down to it, buying these mics is a risk. Buying from the Sound Room is less of a risk. Taylor is more concerned with customer satisfaction than Guitar Center. If you want to try and buy one at GC, see if you can hook several into a mixer with a decent pair of headphones and try to hear the differences. FIND OUT IF YOU CAN RETURN IT!!! I have heard people say that GC is return friendly, and I've heard people say they won't take a mic back for sanitary reasons. Good luck.
 
Octava

Listen I am sure you can understand this. When someone says repeatedly"you should only buy from the sound room" or "beware mics form the guitar center" or "stay away form guitar center mics"
it sounds like a sales pitch or some type of properly planted internet coersion. My opinion on whether people should be allowed for very long badmouthing anything and anyone without being able to take some back may be quite jaded but still stand true to me. So if you feel bad im sorry i did not mean to hurt you. But asking for my real name and address is a threatening and i am sure you can see that.
Right??
and by the way i'm not sure that it was you who wrote all these things here was it?
 
Hey Jude (that's funny)
Work on that grammar, especially the run on sentences.
Put a comma in every now and then.

>>"Listen I am sure you can understand this"
I've read it six times and I'm only starting to get it.

>>"When someone says repeatedly"you should only buy from the sound room" or "beware mics form the guitar center" or "stay away form guitar center mics"
it sounds like a sales pitch or some type of properly planted internet coersion."
Lay off of the weed.

>>"My opinion on whether people should be allowed for very long badmouthing anything and anyone without being able to take some back may be quite jaded but still stand true to me."
Did you write this? Is english your native language? If not I apologize, but if it is, you should apologize.

>>"So if you feel bad im sorry i did not mean to hurt you. But asking for my real name and address is a threatening and i am sure you can see that.
Right??"
Again, proofread please.

>>"and by the way i'm not sure that it was you who wrote all these things here was it?"
You're murdering the english language my friend.

The simple fact is you have a small company that sells microphones, and a large one that sells all kind of equipment. The small one charges a little more, but they test their mics, they take them apart and check components, they extend the warranty on them, and they take them back and fix them if they have problems. The large one hires guys who realized that working the deep fryer at Burger King was bad for their skin, and working for a company with guitar in its name is cool. I just explained that a lot of these mics come out of the factory with problems. Don't get into a battle of wits with Recording Engineer. From your grasp of the english language, I'd say you're defenseless.
 
Re: Octava

Originally posted by judeholland
When someone says repeatedly"you should only buy from the sound room" or "beware mics form the guitar center" or "stay away form guitar center mics" it sounds like a sales pitch

Assuming that it's false, yes. Thats why you need to know if you can trust the person that says it or not. If you can trust him/her, then it's probably true, if you can't, it's probably not true.

You can't just claim that the information can't be trusted and is salespitch unless you have any arguments to back that up. The fact that other people, none of which you have any reason to distrust, sais the same thing is also a good indication on the trustworthyness of the information.

or some type of properly planted internet coersion.

Isn't that just a little bit paranoid?

But asking for my real name and address is a threatening and i am sure you can see that.

I read that as a joke.

and by the way i'm not sure that it was you who wrote all these things here was it?

Uhm, so who do you mean then, if not RE?
 
Open the flood gates

Oh well, here it comes.
Sorry about my wasting of the english language. I was not lucky enough to have the proper breeding(money or schooling) as some of you who i am sure are more finished than I.
And yes, coming from where i've been it pays to be paranoid yet maybe its too much.
There are persons who's job it is to come into these forums and steer public opinion towards or away from products or companys. If you don't see it keep loking you will find it everywhere.
When I see in happen as much as it has with the oktava mics i find it hard not to say anything.
If it is just advice then o.k. i'm sorry.
But if it is sales pitch and just bad mouthing for just that purpose then thats what it is.
I dont know the truth so i am sorry to the person who made all the sound room over gc oktava's post's.
I am sure he or she is of of good moral character.
Thanks
 
More light-less heat

To speak generally on this subject in a way that everyone can come together on,consider the state of the manufacturing business in Russia today.
There are a number of factories which formerly made products for the military (Sovtek tubes for example made tubes for military field radios) and as milspec have very high QC.Even better (1% tolerances) than American commercial mfg. (3-6%)
On the other hand,lots of guys over there are just commercial factories with no tradition of the kind of QC we are used to.Their dedication to quality control is more suspect.
Unfortunately,Oktavia has made a bit of a reputation for themselves as being in the second catagory.Not to say you couldn't find a real good one,but I would be prepared to look hard.


Tom Hicks
Quality Control Supervisor
Rhythm Band Instruments
Fort Worth Texas
 
Look

judeholland,

I'm sorry if you felt me asking your real name and the city you live in was a threat. I assure it was not! I DID NOT ask for your address. If I had, then I could see how you could see it as a threat. But even then, if I REALLY wanted to know, the LAST thing I'd do would be to ask YOU right HERE in this PUBLIC place for ALL to see.

The reason I left MY real name and city is for YOU to ask around MY reputation. I am the moderator of this MICROPHONE forum for a reason. SIMPLY because I AM a microphone junky-fiend. ANYONE who's been around here for awhile or read the archives in this forum ABSOLUTELY know that about me if NOT anything else. THAT IS my reputation here. I'm KNOWN to try not so popular or known mics.

As I've said, I've made MANY friends here so they KNOW who I am. Ask around... They'll tell you who I am. But it seems you've made your own conclusion. That is fine. But please don't be the ""blasphemous" one" you claim I am.

So, the reason I asked your real name and the city you live in is so that I can do the same. What's your reputation? What's your contributions? With the little amount of posts you have, I don't know much about you. In fact, since you say you're one of the ones who's gotten tired of my Oktava from The sound room only plugs and have "accused and confronted" me before, that means you've been around awhile. Might you have another or maybe even other aka identities? Things are usually obvious, but I'd like to see if you'd fess-up to it.

When I first came here, I don't believe many had even heard of Oktava or if they HAD, it was simply because they were in GCs. I was the guy who introduced this place to The Sound Room and my friend Taylor Johnson through being a customer VERY satisfied customer FIRST!

I MYSELF found this out through a personal friend locally AND through rec.audio.pro; particularly, Harvey Gerst, a man who I respect and admire (and he probably doesn't even know my name). I've gotten SO MANY great tips on gear from him and he probably doesn't even know it!

How about 797 Audio? I've talked about them quite a lot here. Why aren't you on me about that? Again, I was the FIRST person to mention THAT name here. Again, I MYSELF first heard about them pon r.a.p.

Now, I'm on a DaviSound kick. Have YOU heard of them? Most likely NOT, but I'm such a satisfied customer of a few of their products that I'm trying to tell EVERYONE who will listen about them.

If you REALLY check the archives, REALLY UNDERSTAND what I'm saying, AND see the other products I let known to people who ASK, you'll see I'm SIMPLY an satisfied AND excited customer who wants share it with EVERYONE just as others have shared with me.

To further defend Taylor Johnson and now myself, I'll be back this weekend going over all I've been told and KNOW about Oktava mics. YES, I've said it ALL over and over and over in the past (which is what people have seemed to complain about in the past and once again now), but here we go again as people here STILL don't know and new people ARE ASKING! As you can see, I DON'T mind repeating myself over and over and over again if it's helping and SIMPLY informing others of what I've heard, know, and experienced. Yeah, I take A LOT of shit because of it, but it's worth it to me.
 
2 words- Sound Room

a simple test... call/visit your local guitar satan and ask about Octavas then call taylor at the sound room ...now who would you rather buy a mic from...it should be pretty obvious
 
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