Disassembling FATAR keyboard to clean - Help!

i think that the problem could be:

-the black keys defective. (the part that pressing the ruber contact)

-the counterweigths of the black keys.

thank´s


not likely... the counter weights dont affect the triggering... just your perception of the feel...

all the black keys broke in the exact same way at exactly the same time resulting in a response never before seen??? yeah right... i used to do this shit for a living and ya got me stumped... kinda wish you were in the neighbourhood... i dig puzzles...
 
Thanks for the instructions Toddskins.

We have an SL880 which got rather wet while gigging at Kendal Mint Fest (Cubbria UK) in the summer, and some of the notes no longer work, so I stripped it down as per instructions above and cleaned it, but some notes are still not working.

Do you think I just need to clean it some more? or do I need to look else where for the problem? If so, where?

Many thanks.
 
ywo possible issues... did you also clean the board that the switches are on?? what did you clean it with?? pure isospropyl is prefered.. 99%.. no rubbing etc...
 
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Wow Toddskins, just what I was looking for.
Self built in Fatar keyboard has 4 unwilling keys. Your post might save me a long trip and quite some dough!) Great man!.

Andreas
 
Thanks for the tips.

I am working on an Ensoniq ZR-76 (circa 1998) with the weighted Fatar keys. Two octaves are at full volume. Upon inspection of the inside it is obvious that liquid was spilled into the keyboard. The sound making portion of the board is fine as are most of the keyboard keys.

I took it apart, removed the rubber contact strips and cleaned the contacts on the board and strip with rubbing alcohol. Upon resassembly the problem continues to exist and actually a few more adjacent keys that I cleaned are now at full volume.

I plan to order the Fatar rubber contact strips and also may attempt to clean the contacts with deoxit or similar contact cleaner. Any thoughts?

One key takes quite a bit more pressure to start it on its downward motion;however it feels fine when the keyboard is upside down in a repair position.
I assumed it was from the liquid but I hear it could be a bent stabilizer rod and that the key needs to be removed and repaired. Any thoughts?

I'll report back in a week or two.
 
I took it apart, removed the rubber contact strips and cleaned the contacts on the board and strip with rubbing alcohol.

I'll report back in a week or two.

well in a week or two you should also go back and reread the thread... i have posted several times in this and other threads that you should not under ANY circumstances use RUBBING alcohol.... it contains oils and such that fuk it up worse... and is the reason those other adjacent keys are now triggering wrong!!!
 
Isopropyl rubbing alcohol

Well I don't know what to say to this statement, that rubbing alcohol causes problems as the last writer just wrote.

The guy I contacted orginally about getting help with fixing my keyboard, had worked in a shop that almost exclusively worked on Fatar keyboards, and especially in Kurzweils.

It was he that sent me a photo and instructions on how to use the rubbing alcohol once I got the keyboard disassembled.

Lastly, I was curious as to the ingredients in Isopropyl alcohol and it does not have any oils in it. I read through several definitions on the web, and Wikipedia does not differ from any of the other sites. Here is what is says about the uses of Isopropyl alcohol:

USES:
Isopropyl alcohol is readily available. Like acetone, it dissolves a wide range of nonpolar compounds. It is also relatively non-toxic and evaporates quickly. Thus it is used widely as a solvent and as a cleaning fluid, especially for dissolving lipophilic contaminants such as oil. Examples include cleaning electronic devices such as contact pins (like those on ROM cartridges), magnetic tape and disk heads, .... including removing sticky glues.... etc.


But I'm not an expert. Two technicians of keyboards gave differing answers to the trade. I don't know.
 
Full volume

I remember that when the key on my keyboard was playing too loudly, that after I had cleaned the contacts, it still persisted.

The problem that I discovered when I got access to the rubber contacts was that the bulb of the contact had gotten deformed, kinda like when people push in the cones of speakers at a stereo store and damage them.

So, during the first cleaning, I pushed the bulb back out and hoped that would do the trick, but after reassembling and playing for a few hours, the problem came back.

I don't know anything about stablizer rods. My Kurzweil does not have one.

When replacing the contacts, go to the MIDI Store to purchase. Their prices are the best at $4.00 per strip (12 contacts per strip).
 
Thanks for the replies and reminder.

I've heard elsewhere that it is not advisable to use rubbing alcohol. My father also reminded me after I used it. He provided Denatured Alcohol in the form of shellac thinner. Btw. you can use the shellac thinner as charcoal lighter fluid. It does not light the charcoal as quickly as typical starter fluid but does not have the unpleasant taste. http://paddler99.trailstories.com/fuel.html

I again cleaned the board and contacts with the denatured alcohol without luck. The keys are still triggering at full velocity.

I'm going to purchase two strips of rubber contacts. Since it is an Ensoniq I plan to purchase from http://www.syntaur.com/ensoniq_parts.html#ks They'll cost about $25. for the two one-octave strips incl shipping.

The KS-32 was a 76 key weighted board from the early 90's. I believe it was their first to use the Fatar weighted keys. Notice they also have some of the circuit boards for the rubber contacts. While I could not quite make out the serial number on the board, it looks identical to the board in my ZR-76, a late 90's weighted keyboard--Ensoniq's last and a fairly nice unit, especially with the 16 meg piano samples, drum machine, sequencer and Idea Pad capture buffer.

I'll update you in a week or so after I've installed the new rubber. At that time I'll also work on the "sticky" key. Thanks again.
 
Well I don't know what to say to this statement, that rubbing alcohol causes problems as the last writer just wrote.

The guy I contacted orginally about getting help with fixing my keyboard, had worked in a shop that almost exclusively worked on Fatar keyboards, and especially in Kurzweils.

It was he that sent me a photo and instructions on how to use the rubbing alcohol once I got the keyboard disassembled.

Lastly, I was curious as to the ingredients in Isopropyl alcohol and it does not have any oils in it. I read through several definitions on the web, and Wikipedia does not differ from any of the other sites. Here is what is says about the uses of Isopropyl alcohol:

USES:
Isopropyl alcohol is readily available. Like acetone, it dissolves a wide range of nonpolar compounds. It is also relatively non-toxic and evaporates quickly. Thus it is used widely as a solvent and as a cleaning fluid, especially for dissolving lipophilic contaminants such as oil. Examples include cleaning electronic devices such as contact pins (like those on ROM cartridges), magnetic tape and disk heads, .... including removing sticky glues.... etc.


But I'm not an expert. Two technicians of keyboards gave differing answers to the trade. I don't know.

the problem isn't isopropyl... it's rubbing... not the same... i thought i gave you most of that info... iirc you asked if i'ld do it for you...and yes YEARS of doing it in the trenches...


addendum... sorry todd my mistake that was your novation you were asking about...
 
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Success!

In Review:
Liquid was poured into an Ensoniq ZR-76 (circa 1998) with Fatar weighted keys.
Two octaves were triggering at full velocity and one key is "sticky" when pressed.

I cleaned the rubber contact strips and the contacts on the circuit board below the contact strips with denatured alcohol (shellac thinner). This did not correct the problem.

I ordered new rubber contact strips from Midi-store.com and installed them. The keyboard is now velocity sensitive!

I sprayed some silicon spray in the area around the sticky key, unfortunately there is not good access to the weighted mechanism without completed dissemblance. The problem was not resolved. I suppose I'll have to disassemble it--yikes! I'll report back.
 
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Good report

Glad to hear it.

Taking the keys out and working with them is pretty easy. Look at the photos on Page 1 of this thread.

The worst part is taking the whole keyboard down to get to that stage. Ech!

When reassembling my Kurzweil, I thought is was like trying to build the boat inside a soda bottle. Not fun.
 
Sticky Key

I used a bit of white grease on the spot where the key touches the weight. The grease is from a spray bottle and I used a long, thin extension extension to the spray bottle to access the location (the type that comes with WD-40).

Initially the key felt great! Then after the key sat for an hour or so without any movement it again felt "sticky".

I then put a weight on the key. An hour later I removed the weight and the key again felt great. I repeated this and again it felt great. When I removed the weight for a couple of hours it again felt "sticky."

I assume that when the liquid spilled into the keyboard some of the liquid collected on the key's weight at the spot where the key touches it. It then feels sticky when initially pressed but the remainder of the way down it feels fine.

I suppose I'll have to disassemble it and clean the key and the weight. If anyone has any other ideas I'd welcome them.
 
Grab your cam

and post some digital pics of the innards of your keyboard. Pics always make things a little more clear. :)

Or don't. :o
 
Errant Bb now works as new!

Thanks to Toddskins for the fine step by step repair guide. The Bb on our church's Kurzweil RG200 was driving our musicians crazy. The repair guide here worked as if it were made for our keyboard. Thanks again!
 
Sticky Keys Much Improved

Success! well, sort of.

In Review: One key, C5, of all keys, on my Ensoniq ZR-76 (circa 1998) with Fatar weighted keys was sticky when initially pressed. It did not feel sticky all the way down, just at the onset of touch. Also it did not feel too bad in the minutes after the initial touch; however 10 minutes after sitting idle it would again be sticky.

I took off the side panel of the board--see the picture below. In the area circled in red on the left you'll see the weight and the rubber strip on which the weight rests when not being played. Apparently the liquid that spilled into the board caused the sticky feeling. The liquid also fouled up two octaves of the contact strips--see the circled area on the right. I previously described the successful replacement of the strips.

I cut a long thin piece of hardwood approximately 1/2" wide--fortunately my pop is a cabinet maker. I glued a piece of an old washcloth onto the end of it. I moistened the cloth with water and later with Fantastic cleaner and cleaned the rubber strip below the problematic C5 key.

Frankly this probably only made the problem worse. One of the adjacent keys started to become sticky as well.

As a last resort before having to take the keys apart I put a small amount of plain body powder on the strip of cloth--it was completely dry--and used my stick to deliver the powder to the affected area of the sticky rubber strip. Immediately I felt an improvement. I repeated this several times over several hours. The keys feel great!

The next morning they continued to feel great. Of course I don't know for how long this will continue to work but I suspect it will never be as sticky as it was before I applied the powder. No, my hardwood stick is not for sale ;)
 

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Interesting

Cool, and pretty interesting story. It looks like powder residue there on the keyboard. heheh

You seem to be one tenacious individual to go through all that. You must really love your Ensoniq.

Thanks for posting the pic!
 
You can see a bit of powder on the far left side of the pic; however the stains to the right of the weight are probably from the dried up liquid that spilled into the keyboard.

I only used a small amount of powder and rubbed it onto the rubber strip. That is why I had to do it several times to resolve the problem. Also my strip of wood was only slightly wider than the rubber strip. I was trying to avoid leaving significant amounts of powder residue.

I like the challenge of repairing it and don't like the financial repercussions of failing to repair it.

I do like this Ensoniq board; I think it is an underrated board probably because Ensoniq was purchased by Emu around the time it was in production. Its 16 meg 'Perfect Piano' card compares favorably with many much more expensive keyboards. Check it out in the Piano Shootout at http://purgatorycreek.com/

The board's Idea Pad is a sequencer that constantly runs while you are playing. If you like something you've recently played you just send the Idea Pad's contents to a sequencer track. The board also has a useful built in drum machine.

It is a good composer's keyboard. It lacks the real time controllers--sliders and buttons of most newer keyboards. I have some older midi faders I can use with it--Lexicon MRC and Peavey PC1600.
 
Opening a K2500X

Todd, you nearly got me killed with this one!

The ensoniqs are a breeze to open and work on. You just turn it upside down, remove the screws and pull open the bottom panel. I nearly screwed up a K2500x when I recently opened it while it was upside down!

There were a lot more than the 35 screws you mentioned. If I ever have to open one of these again I'll probably unscrew some of them while it is upside down. Then I'll put the keyboard on a keyboard stand or saw horses and remove the remainder of the screws while working under the stand.
 
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