Why won't my Les Paul stay in tune?

v3nge

New member
Okay, so I have an '09 Les Paul Studio, but I haven't played it much in the last few years because it won't stay in tune. I took it to Sam Ash and suggested it may be a nut issue (I've heard LPs have a lot of issues with the nut).

The luthier decided it was the tuners, so he put Grover's on it, but that didn't help at all. I decided not to go back because I've had a couple problems in the past with him. I then tried lubing the nut to see if that helped, to no avail.

Any ideas? Have you had this problem before?
 
My '78 Gibson Les Paul Pro "SECOND" stayed in tune in it's hard case while in storage for 20 years. Strange, but true.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled programming...
 
My '78 Gibson Les Paul Pro "SECOND" stayed in tune in it's hard case while in storage for 20 years. Strange, but true.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled programming...

Let's just assume it because of your quality nut? lol!
 
A les paul with a 'properly' cut nut stays in tune just fine.
I'm not talking about recutting the stock nut (which can improve tuning stability greatly) but replacing it.
I myself prefer bone, which I saturate with 3 in one oil after cutting it. Bone, being porous, soaks up this very thin oil and keeps it almost permanently lubricated.

In the video above, he blames it mostly on the 17 degree angle, but that's not completely the case.
The Gibsoni style headstock creates 2 distinct bends that the string has before it gets to tuners. Yet the nut is cut in a straight line. Also, most Gibson nuts are Corian. It's hard, it's cheap, but better suited to kitchen countertops. :) They are also just not cut well.

I'll cut a nut with considerable back angle and cut the D and G string slots at an angle so the bend is less harsh.

With a well done nut, tuning issues go away.
:D
 
Seriously. Why don't they at least cut the back of the nut so the string is in line with the peg? That can't cost a lot extra...
 
Seriously. Why don't they at least cut the back of the nut so the string is in line with the peg? That can't cost a lot extra...

Had a buddy that worked at the custom shop.
I asked how long they would take on a setup.
His answer? 3 minutes. Timed with an egg timer
That tells the tale. :D
Nowadays they do the frets and nut with the pkeck machine.
Can't tell you how many pleck jobs I've redone. To do frets and a nut right you need a skilled human who will put the time into it.
That costs money they don't want to spend.


They don't care, people will still buy them..
 
Seriously. Why don't they at least cut the back of the nut so the string is in line with the peg? That can't cost a lot extra...

You can fix that easy enough...either with nut files or a bit of sand paper...but TBH, I'm not sure how much they really need to be "in line", because no matter how much the back of the slot is in line, there's always going to be an angle because of the front of the slot. The string has to make an angle to go from slot to machine head.
If you just file/sand down that edge of the nut slot so it's a bit rounded/smooth...it will be enough. You don't need the slot angled.
I've done that on all my guitars. I just picked up set of nut files for my string gauge, and it took no time to both cut the nut depth correctly where it was too high, and at the same time smooth out that back edge a bit.
There's probably more friction at the bridge saddles, even though they are in line. I like to take a 400-600 grit paper, fold it, and then run it through each saddle slot until I feel the grit on the paper has worn off...which is pretty quick against the metal saddles.

I also will sharpen a #2 pencil to a fine point, and then just work that back-n-forth a bit into each nut slot and also the bridge saddles...and that graphite will keep things smooth for awhile. If/when I sense a string hanging, I'll just repeat with the pencil.

Right now all my guitars hold tune real well after I touched up the nut slots with the files...and then treated them and the saddles with some pencil graphite.
I play pretty hard, but once I get a set of new strings settled in...they all hold tune.

Now..that don't mean that #$&% G string is playing nice...:mad: it's always a PITA, but overall I can work with it and just adjust my string pressure as I play to adjust pitch...plus, for leads, a little vibrato goes a long way to fixing the G string issues. :D
 

:D

You were going to say something?
Am I taking shit or making some sense with my approach?

Oh...You remember I asked you awhile ago about filing the nut slots and that I was going to get the file set. Well, I went ahead with it, and then had the files for a couple months...until I got up the nerve to file the slots.
Heck....once I did the first one, it was actually pretty easy. I followed your advice and every few passes I would recheck the string height, until I get the feel for it.
After that, the rest of the guitars were pretty fast. I just went for the "ping" of the strings on the first fret while pressing at the second. That was my "gauge". :)
I actually had a couple of guitars that I know were done well at manufacturing, and when I checked them, the slots were spot-on, and that's how they were...just a "ping" off the first fret. I gave the low E and A just ____ hair more height. ;)

Anyway...I managed not to fuck up a single slot, and now all my guitars are set up the same.
 
I was going to say something, then said fuck it, I don't feel like typing any more.
:D
Good your stuff turned out well. :)
 
There are a few things you can do on any Guitar to improve tune stability. Make sure you put the strings on right, with the correct amount of winds and everything neat. Lubricate every point of contact at the bridge, saddle, nut. I use Big Bends Nut Sauce. It sticks better than graphite. Stretch your strings. Make sure the nut is cut properly. Make sure it's not your playing technique.

A Strat with a floating bridge is more of a pain to keep in tune.
 
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I have an '01 Gibson Studio - stays in tune really well, unless weather extremes...then it'll get slightly higher in pitch even overnight. But generally, it's pretty sturdy.
 
I have a 76 LP that stays in tune very well. I think over the years it stayed in tune better as it aged.....so I wonder if the nut wearing down a bit might have made it better. It has the original tuners....bridge.....saddle....etc.

The original OP didn't really get specific as to what he meant by being out of tune. I know that sounds like a dumb statement........but he could be referring to the G string issue......which is worse on my LP than my Strat.......or an intonation issue.......or other problems with tuning. Since he brought the guitar to Sam Ash I'm going to take a leap here and say that the tech would have checked intonation at least.
 
Sprinkle everything with baby powder, lots and lots of baby powder. :D

:eek:

Or.. cook some bacon. Slather the whole guitar with bacon grease. (Cooled off of course)
No more problems and your studio will smell good. :)
Everybody loves the smell of bacon.
:D
 
The "luthier" recommended grovers because he diagnosed that the tuners were your problem?
Even cheap assed tuners rarely slip. I would demand he replace the old tuners and refund my money.
He is obviously not very knowledgeable.

things that cause tuning instability on a fixed bridge guitar like a Las paul is:
#1 the nut...usually if the slots are deep the string will bind in the nut.
#2 The strings aren't stretched out yet

#3 too many wraps around the tuner post..2 wraps is all you need.

that's about it.....other than some major structural issue like a neck separating from the body or the tunamatic posts holes being wallered out, or the tuner screws being loose.

go back to Sam Ash, find a manager, bend his ear, get a refund.....go somewhere else.

Also, if the headstock had to be altered in any way to fit the grovers.....letting you have the grovers, giving your tuners back, AND refunding you money would be them getting off cheap.
My 2 cents.
 
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Nice tuners really are an upgrade on any guitars IMO. That said, I doubt the stock tuners on a Gibson Les Paul were that bad to begin with. Keep you upgraded tuners if you like them, but as Jimistone said tuners probably not the source of your tuning stability problem.
 
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