A tuning type problem, maybe intonation?

ZoSo58LP

ZoSo58LP

rock guy
Hello all, first I'll introduce myself..my names Jay, and I'm a huge zep fan! heh, you can tell by me name :D

anyway here's my problem on my strat:

The intonation was fine..Eveyrthing at the 12th fret was the exact note. But I noticed that when playing my G and B together as a bar, like 5th fret G 5th fret B, it sounded like satan himself walked in the room. They were SO out of tune, it sounded horrible! And even when i play a chord type thing on it, for instance like we'll say 2 G and 3 B, it still sounded out! But my intonation was perfect! So what I tried to do, was check to see if 4G was a perfect B. It was a tad sharp, so i fixed it. So now the intonation wasn't as perfect at 12th fret, and it didn't help the sound at all. :( somebody, please help my poor little strat!! Thanks!
 
Does it happen on all the strings, or just those two? How's your neck? Bowed? Maybe your truss rod needs adjustment? If you can't get it in tune with the bridge or truss adjustments, take it to a guitar tech to get evaluated.
 
hey thanks for replyin, heh I was gettin worried...nah, it only happens on those 2 strings, eveyrthing else is fine. The next isn't bowed or aynthing, it's pretty much perfectly level, and the truss rod is set up fine so that it's got sorta low action. guess i'll have to pay some money :(
 
You might be confusing intonation with tuning.

To set the intonation, the guitar should be in tune, first.... then you set the intonation using a strobe.

Are you tuning using harmonics? If not, you should... if you're using distortion.

Take it to a guitar tech and let him set it up for you.

;)
 
Yeah, I got the intonation set perfect by playing with the saddles, ya kno? EVery time I'd move it, i'd retune it. and I use the tuner and stuff and harmonics...sigh :(
 
...hendrix used to smash his strats, set'em on fire etc--because they wouldn't stay "in tune"...sure his "playing" was flamboyant, but his destructive tendencies were born out of frustration...once he started tuning any where from 1/2 to 2 steps low his intonation problems were minimized and so was his tendency to smash instruments...seriously though, take it to an experienced luthier--prefferably someone with 20-30 yrs experience.
 
Ugh guys this sucks...it sounds like crap, and it makes me so mad because I have no money to go and get it chekced out, cuz my bro paid like 40+ to get his les paul set up. and Im only a kid, so my parnets dont always give me money lol and I dont want to really save for a new guitar, ugh! this makes me so mad. Ill record a sound clip of how bad it sounds, but it makes no sence....why so bad!? :( :(


*edit*
ugh thanks anybody who helped but i give up, i was playin around wit it before and now it sounds even worse, especailly if I'm playinn SRV's Pride and JOy, the begining, the 5B matches perfect to open E, but once i goto 7E and 8B, it sounds like garbage, its so out of tune. i just threw this piece on the floor and walked away in disgust of it. i put like $165 bucks into it too, and that money's wasted. ugh thanks anyway.
 
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Actually it makes perfect sense if you know anything about guitar tuning, action, the overtone series, temperament, etc. No guitar can ever be perfectly in tune, it's all a compromise and the best you can hope for is for it to sound as good as possible in all positions.

Further complicating it, some people are much more sensitive to the subtle differences in pitch. What some people find barely noticeable, others find intolerable.

Use of distortion also exacerbates it because the extra overtones each of the two distorted notes produce are each also out of tune with each other, and makes for a nasty sounding mess, like you are describing.

If the imperfections are subtle enough they can be smeared or masked by ambience, doubling guitar parts, and such. Also, most good players eventually compensate for this a bit by subtle use of vibrato and small string-bending adjustments as they fret or chord, probably without even realizing it. Most Strat players get good at this -- they have to...

Here's some reading that will help clarify the issues for you and maybe offer you some solutions.

http://www.braille.uwo.ca/ag/articles/setup-101-4.html
http://www.doolinguitars.com/intonation/intonation1.html
http://home.swipnet.se/~w-37192/eng/handbook/Tuning/tuning.html
http://www.megatar.com/english/Libr...delphia.net/~cygnusx_1/equal_temperament.html
 
the 5B matches perfect to open E, but once i goto 7E and 8B, it sounds like garbage, its so out of tune. i just threw this piece on the floor and walked away in disgust of it. i put like $165 bucks into it too, and that money's wasted. ugh thanks anyway.
Click to expand...

Aha! As Alchuck alludes, this isn't an intonation problem, it's a fact of life of equal temperament. You see, modern instruments are set up so each 1/2 step increment (fret) is the same as every other step. This allows you to play in any key with the same amount of out-of-tuneness.

Out of tune with what, you ask? The harmonic series Doug Q refers to, and exactly why you should NOT tune to harmonics unless you only play power chords. If you tune using harmonics, your A, D, and G strings will be progressively flatter than they should be in equal temperament, and your B string will be sharp. The octave at the open E and 2nd fret D string will be out of tune! When you play the open B and E together, they'll sound great, but when you form a third with those two strings (as in your example), it will be sharp.

Truth be told, that interval would be sharp even if was perfectly tuned in equal temperament. Many guitarists never notice this, but you have. Probably you have good ears.

Here's my system: I tune E, A, and D in equal temperament (each string tuned to lower string 5th fret). The G is a compromise between the octave at the 3rd fret E string (G) and the third at the open E string and first fret G string (G#). The B string is a compromise between the third at the third fret E string (G) and open B, and the third at the open A string and 2nd fret B string (C#). The E is a compromise between the octave with the low E string and the third at the open D string and 2nd fret E string (F#). With that, I can play G, E, A, D, and C chords reasonably in tune with themselves.

For recording I'll often adjust the top three strings depending on what key I'm in.

Of course even that is not good enough, so I've designed a custom fret layout based upon 16 notes from a 19-note system. I can't decide if the 19 notes will be equally tempered or not. I warn you, down this road lies madness! MADNESS!

One last thought make sure it isn't an intonation problem: does the 8th fret E and B sounds as good as the open E and B? If not, there's still an intonation problem.
 
hey! wow thanks for that, I'll definitly check that out...but my guitar kept coming out of tune, no matter what, whenever i pulled up the string at the 12th fret, it constantly came out, so as I was doing it to my high E, it snaps...my brand new pack friggin snapped. so you know, knowing me, i got overly frustrated and just threw the thing on the ground and kicked it. i think its safe to say im going to gut my $165 out of this POS and maybe i'll buy a new guitar if I ever get money.
 
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