Tube Questions

C

chamelious

www.thesunexplodes.com
Just got my first tube amp, a 60w ashdown fallen angel combo. I wondered what the characteristics of knacked tubes are? Everything ive read says the amp has good low end, and whilst its got a lot of low end, its not tight, sounds flabby.
Also even with the gain on full and the boost on and the treble on full, i can barely get a pinched harmonic out of it. Seems to be with the gain and treble both on full, it should be fairly fizzy and harmonics should fly out. I've had to order up a noise gate as the feedbacks uncontrollable with volume on 4.
Guitar i'm using is a Yamaha Drop 6, tuned down a step and a half and in "drop d", with a single emg 81 in the bridge.
 
Turn the gain way down, all the way to clean. Turn the volume up, until you can hear the sound thicken or even start to OD a little. Bring up the gain to taste. Try with and without the boost. Report back with findings.
 
I'll try next week when im next int he practise room, which volume do you mean? The channel volume was on about 8, master was at about 4.

Is needing a tubescreamer fairly common practise in metal and stuff?
 
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Master volume, with the channel volume adjusted to balance the channels. What you're looking for is to drive the power section, which means playing pretty loud. So start on the clean channel, turn up, switch to the dirty channel with the gain down, then gradually increase the gain and decrease the channel volume until you're as close as you're going to get.

Lots of people, maybe a majority, who use tube amps for distortion will use some sort of OD/distortion/fuzz. I didn't for many years, but I'm just getting into it. There's something to be said for the different characters available, even if you don't need the extra gain (although you may). It's very common, nearly ubiquitous, in heavy music.
 
Hmm ok thanks very much for the advice, you've been very helpfull i'll try what you said and probs get myself a tubescreamer of some sorts. Any thoughts on where to start? Thinking maxon, seems to be popular. The amp doesn't exactly sound bad now its pretty awesome just not 100% there, so i guess it can only get better.
 
I think what ermghoti is saying (and might have been missed) is that instead of Gain on 8 and master on 4, you should try Gain on (whatever sounds best) and master on 8.

Getting pinch harmonics and crazy gain out of a 60W tube amplifier is going to require getting the power stage really cooking, in my experience. I'm not really familiar with the Ashdown Fallen Angel, but this is true for every tube amp I have played. If you're not trying to go deaf, get a power soak or use a pedal as suggested.
 
RejectionNinja said:
Getting pinch harmonics and crazy gain out of a 60W tube amplifier is going to require getting the power stage really cooking, in my experience.
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Pinch harmonics and gain have nothing what so ever to do with the power stage. Gain comes from the preamp stages and pinch harmonics are produced by a picking technique.
 
ocnor said:
Pinch harmonics and gain have nothing what so ever to do with the power stage. Gain comes from the preamp stages and pinch harmonics are produced by a picking technique.
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Yer, but what i was saying was im able to produce them easily on other setups but they dont come out easy on this amp (so far).

Any suggestions on pedals? Im looking at maxon od808...
 
You don't need a tube screamer. In fact I don't even know why you think you need one. a tube screamer is not needed to make a tube amp scream. Those are generally used to boost the signal going into a fairly clean tube amp to push it even further. Like say SRV boosting his strat into a 59 Bassman. The bassman breaks up nice, but he wanted to drive it even harder. I realize there are no rules to what you can and cannot do, but this doesn't sound like a case of needing more gear to accomplish something. Sounds like you need to play with the amp more and not be so extreme on the settings.

I haven't played that amp, but based on this the sound coming out of this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPEde1Hrb34 (namely at 0:33)
you should have no problems getting pinched harmonics to sing with that amp.
 
Outlaws said:
You don't need a tube screamer. In fact I don't even know why you think you need one. a tube screamer is not needed to make a tube amp scream. Those are generally used to boost the signal going into a fairly clean tube amp to push it even further. Like say SRV boosting his strat into a 59 Bassman. The bassman breaks up nice, but he wanted to drive it even harder. I realize there are no rules to what you can and cannot do, but this doesn't sound like a case of needing more gear to accomplish something. Sounds like you need to play with the amp more and not be so extreme on the settings.

I haven't played that amp, but based on this the sound coming out of this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPEde1Hrb34 (namely at 0:33)
you should have no problems getting pinched harmonics to sing with that amp.
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If thats the case why do all metal bands use them?
 
ermghoti said:
Your gate is probably unnecessary as well. It certainly won't do anything for feedback.
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It will if the threshholds set high enough? Im talking about the amp making noise when not only is nothing being played but my hands are on the strings.
 
chamelious said:
It will if the threshholds set high enough? Im talking about the amp making noise when not only is nothing being played but my hands are on the strings.
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That's not feedback! That's just noise. IME, with a high-gain amp, there's going to be noise, but it is still (usually) insignificant compared to playing volume. The marketing of noise gates has always exceeded the technology. All they do is attenuate below a given signal strength. If your noise is so loud that it interferes with played notes, a gate will chop a performance to pieces, and the solution is to fix the source of the noise. If the noise isn't so bad, big deal, there's a volume knob on your guitar.

Re: metal guys. Again, there a couple of philosophies, any or all of which may be at work. One is to boost an already hard-working amp for more gain, another is to add a different flavor to the sound. The Tube Screamers fall mostly into the former category. Being a mild OD with a lot of midrange, you might use one to make a lead channel, layered on your dirty channel from your amp. OTOH (or additionally) you could run something like a Metal Muff, Bloody Mary, Crunchbox etc. on the clean channel for rythmms, and use your dirty channel for leads.

However, there's no reason why you can't get your amp sounding good, and you should, before experimenting with other stuff. Get the thing turned up, with moderate input gain, and a good dose of mids (turning the mid knob to 3 will cripple most tube amps), and see what happens.
 
ermghoti said:
That's not feedback! That's just noise. IME, with a high-gain amp, there's going to be noise, but it is still (usually) insignificant compared to playing volume. The marketing of noise gates has always exceeded the technology. All they do is attenuate below a given signal strength. If your noise is so loud that it interferes with played notes, a gate will chop a performance to pieces, and the solution is to fix the source of the noise. If the noise isn't so bad, big deal, there's a volume knob on your guitar.

Re: metal guys. Again, there a couple of philosophies, any or all of which may be at work. One is to boost an already hard-working amp for more gain, another is to add a different flavor to the sound. The Tube Screamers fall mostly into the former category. Being a mild OD with a lot of midrange, you might use one to make a lead channel, layered on your dirty channel from your amp. OTOH (or additionally) you could run something like a Metal Muff, Bloody Mary, Crunchbox etc. on the clean channel for rythmms, and use your dirty channel for leads.

However, there's no reason why you can't get your amp sounding good, and you should, before experimenting with other stuff. Get the thing turned up, with moderate input gain, and a good dose of mids (turning the mid knob to 3 will cripple most tube amps), and see what happens.
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Cool, thanks. I've never not used a noise gate, they're completly invaluable for my genre of music.

Interesting what you say about mids? My mids are currently around 6-7. I've never had mids below 5 on any amp.
 
Does the amp start squealing like crazy when you turn up? If so, that could be a failing ("microphonic") tube.
 
A retube may be in order. If you can reach the tubes, tap on them with a pencil eraser while the amp is on and turned up, either no guitar or volume off. If the vibration is translated to output through the speakers, you found a bad tube.

How old is this thing anyway? You may just want to take the thing in for a going-over on general principle. You could have bad/mis-biased tubes, a tired cap, etc.

What genre do you play? I played thrash for years, and never viewed a gate as anything but a nuisance.
 
Its only a year or two old, and i play metal/hardcore stuff. Without a gate, especially at gig/practise volumes you always get some kinda shitty noise when you dont want it betbeen muted stabs and whatnot, which is unacceptable. Unless maybe you have perfect gear. But even Trivium/as i lay dying/etc use boss ns-2's and stuff.
 
chamelious said:
seems to always be the same pitch squeel?
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yes - the same eyeball-exploding pitch, in my experience (maybe not from tube to tube or amp to amp, but each time you turn on a particular amp with a particular microphonic tube and get to the point where it squeals, that is)
 
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