Ok, so I when I play my OD pedals through a certain amp, I get a sound I really like. Then I record that amp with an SM57 into my recording setup and they sound really different. Not necessarily bad but it's not the sound I hear with my ear in the same room. Why is that? And what can I do to get the mic's interpretation of my amp/pedal sound to be more like what I hear with my ear?
So why does the mic hear my amp differently than my ear?
- Thread starter twangbuck
- Start date
unless you are sticking your ear right up to where the mic would be, you're not hearing what the mic hears. You are hearing the amp, the room, any ambient noise, reflections, etc.
Getting the sound you want involves experimenting with mic placement, mics, amp tone, all that stuff.
You have to fiddle around with your gear till what you hear coming out of your monitors is what you are looking for.
Getting the sound you want involves experimenting with mic placement, mics, amp tone, all that stuff.
You have to fiddle around with your gear till what you hear coming out of your monitors is what you are looking for.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
DITTO
Put your ear where mic is, and see if sounds the same....or put the mic where you ear is.
IOW...you have to find the right position where you are recording the sound you are hearing.
Also....keep in mind that a mic is not the same as your ears. Like if you hit your ears with real loud levels, it will naturlaly start to flatten out the EQ curve you end up hearing...but a mic will just pick up what it picks up (assuming it doesn't distort from too loud a level).
Put your ear where mic is, and see if sounds the same....or put the mic where you ear is.
IOW...you have to find the right position where you are recording the sound you are hearing.
Also....keep in mind that a mic is not the same as your ears. Like if you hit your ears with real loud levels, it will naturlaly start to flatten out the EQ curve you end up hearing...but a mic will just pick up what it picks up (assuming it doesn't distort from too loud a level).
mjbphotos
Moderator
Geez, when I said the same thing in a different thread, I got blasted for it! (including by Miro and RFR!)
Really? I do remember responding essentially the same thing the last time this question was asked here a while ago. (Pretty much why I laid out on this one :>)
Wasn't trying to blast you.
I just dont think its a ggod idea to stick one's ear to a speaker. Any good amp tone I've gotten is at volumes I'd never want my eardrums next to.
Wasn't trying to blast you.
I just dont think its a ggod idea to stick one's ear to a speaker. Any good amp tone I've gotten is at volumes I'd never want my eardrums next to.
That ^ might be a source of the problem? I am hardly qualified to comment (don't play, deaf, but I HAVE helped musician son and "hai h'learn" and read much) I have read it many times that you do NOT want the amp at window popping levels?
For sure it will be antisocial but in the room, averaging 90-95dBSPL? That means at a few inches from the cone you would be experiencing 110dB or so? A few seconds of that will do you no harm and believe me! I speak as one who protects what little hearing he has left and try to warn others of the dangers.
The other factor is the level of distortion. Not as much as you think you need seems the received wisdom?
Of course, there ARE those that have huge rigs and advocate recording THAT ear bleeding sound but I think many of us know who I am thinking of and, whatever peeps thought of him, he knew recording!
Other sort of myths/blind alleys? Speakers need to be stressed to their power limit to sound good. Not so, not even close.
ALL the "tone" of an amplifier comes from the output stage. No, varies with amp topologies of course but pre amps have a vast effect on distorted tone.
Dave.
I have recorded at very loud volumes, but am not a proponent of that in a zealous way.
Ive recorded many a band live in the studio and the gear is cooking. You do have to have some volume to be heard with a slamming drummer. Also when the powertubes, not the pre amp tubes, are in the sweet spot you got some volume going on.
I wouldn't stick my ear down there. No way.
Just as i wouldn't stick my ear next to a snare drum to find the best mic spot.
Another aspect is performance. You have a guitar player substantially turn down his volume or change too much, watch his performance go to shit.
The levels and tone have to be in a comfort zone of the player to extract the best from them.
For home recording, I've used my trusty Fender vibro-champ many a time, but when that's singing, I wouldnt stick my ear next to that either.
Besides, the human ear, or should I say 'ears', hear things differently than a mic does for reasons previously mentioned.
Then we get to the whole input chain
All the different things that your 'miced source sound' goes through. Finally you hear it through your monitors which can vary wildly even though everyone claims that their product is flat.
Then we have that guitar tone having to fit into the context of the mix.
Lots of variables from the source to the final recorded tone.
So all I've been saying is why risk your precious eardrums by sticking them next to the speaker cone.
Work out your guitar sound by how it sounds in the monitors, which is it's final destination anyway.
Try different mics, try different positions, try adding some room mics, try dialing down the gain, try dialing it up.
Experiment, and learn what works for you.
Ive recorded many a band live in the studio and the gear is cooking. You do have to have some volume to be heard with a slamming drummer. Also when the powertubes, not the pre amp tubes, are in the sweet spot you got some volume going on.
I wouldn't stick my ear down there. No way.
Just as i wouldn't stick my ear next to a snare drum to find the best mic spot.
Another aspect is performance. You have a guitar player substantially turn down his volume or change too much, watch his performance go to shit.
The levels and tone have to be in a comfort zone of the player to extract the best from them.
For home recording, I've used my trusty Fender vibro-champ many a time, but when that's singing, I wouldnt stick my ear next to that either.
Besides, the human ear, or should I say 'ears', hear things differently than a mic does for reasons previously mentioned.
Then we get to the whole input chain
All the different things that your 'miced source sound' goes through. Finally you hear it through your monitors which can vary wildly even though everyone claims that their product is flat.
Then we have that guitar tone having to fit into the context of the mix.
Lots of variables from the source to the final recorded tone.
So all I've been saying is why risk your precious eardrums by sticking them next to the speaker cone.
Work out your guitar sound by how it sounds in the monitors, which is it's final destination anyway.
Try different mics, try different positions, try adding some room mics, try dialing down the gain, try dialing it up.
Experiment, and learn what works for you.
I totally respect what you are saying RFTR but hearing damage is a function of loudness AND exposure time.
Were this not the case, anyone who has ever shot a service rifle or pistol would instantly be deaf! (around 140dB SPL) OK, shooters now wear protection but they only give around a 20dB reduction and "dad" did not have that!
Anyone who is involved in music so loud that they are scared of getting really close for a second or two is ALREADY in the damaging "zone" IMHO.
Of course I totally respect any individuals choice NOT to be so exposed but a few seconds of 120dB SPL is not going to ruin your ears. Eight hours a day (or the accumulation of same, it is "dosage" integrated over time that matters) at 90dB + for a few years certainly could.
Dave.
Were this not the case, anyone who has ever shot a service rifle or pistol would instantly be deaf! (around 140dB SPL) OK, shooters now wear protection but they only give around a 20dB reduction and "dad" did not have that!
Anyone who is involved in music so loud that they are scared of getting really close for a second or two is ALREADY in the damaging "zone" IMHO.
Of course I totally respect any individuals choice NOT to be so exposed but a few seconds of 120dB SPL is not going to ruin your ears. Eight hours a day (or the accumulation of same, it is "dosage" integrated over time that matters) at 90dB + for a few years certainly could.
Dave.
Dave, I don't dispute what you're saying.about the damage, i just dont want to do that.
That level may not have long term effects in short doses, but will temporarily alter your hearing.
And listening to the speaker is relatively useless. IMHO
Robus nailed the issue and answered the original question in a few simple sentences.
That level may not have long term effects in short doses, but will temporarily alter your hearing.
And listening to the speaker is relatively useless. IMHO
Robus nailed the issue and answered the original question in a few simple sentences.
Farview
Well-known member
The only thing that matter in a recording is what it sounds like to the mic. It doesn't matter what it sounds like in the room.
As far as mic placement goes, pointing the mic at the center of the speaker will give you the brightest sound. As you move the mic away from the center, towards the edge, the sound will get darker.
Besides the mic not having the same response as your ears, the mic is an inch away from the speaker, you ears are probably over the feet in the air and part way across the room. That makes a difference.
As far as mic placement goes, pointing the mic at the center of the speaker will give you the brightest sound. As you move the mic away from the center, towards the edge, the sound will get darker.
Besides the mic not having the same response as your ears, the mic is an inch away from the speaker, you ears are probably over the feet in the air and part way across the room. That makes a difference.
jimistone
long standing member
Unless you have a stellar treated room...which most of us don't ..I suggest putting the sm57 right on the speaker. That takes as much of the boxy room sound out as possible. Experiment with pointing the mic at the center of the speaker cone and moving it more to the edge of the speaker to get, like has been said, darker tones. Also, experiment with the microphone angle into the speaker.
Exhaust all of those possibilities.
It's the best you're going to be able to do with an sm 57. From there you will have to tweak the amp to get anything better. A 57 right on the speaker sounds pretty damn good to me....if the sound coming out of the amp is good that is.
my 2 cents
Exhaust all of those possibilities.
It's the best you're going to be able to do with an sm 57. From there you will have to tweak the amp to get anything better. A 57 right on the speaker sounds pretty damn good to me....if the sound coming out of the amp is good that is.
my 2 cents
rob aylestone
Moderator
It's the same effect you get when wearing ear plugs.Not only does the eq appear to change as mentioned above, but the anvil and stirrup in the ear start to act as a compresor that changes the eq as the sound pressure varies - plus of course that we normally hear with two ears, so one mic isn't as rich and receptive to subtle phase changes.
An another thing! We don't actually "hear" the room we are in. Sure, if you move from a really dead space to say a swimming pool you are instantly aware of the change but very quickly you "tune out" the room's reverberation and (within limits) can carry on a conversation with someone several mtrs away. Had you recorded that person and listened on cans or monitors in a well treated room you would have divil of a job understanding them*.
There is an analogous process with the minces except it goes much faster. Coming in from daylight you are totally unaware of the change of colours due to the spectrum of artificial light (Of course FINE colour judgement needs daylight or special "art" lighting) . Microphones like basic cameras are stupid.
*Which is why the modern fashion of producers of putting reporters in the ACTUAL acoustic, good or bloody terrible, is SO bloody daft!
Dave.
There is an analogous process with the minces except it goes much faster. Coming in from daylight you are totally unaware of the change of colours due to the spectrum of artificial light (Of course FINE colour judgement needs daylight or special "art" lighting) . Microphones like basic cameras are stupid.
*Which is why the modern fashion of producers of putting reporters in the ACTUAL acoustic, good or bloody terrible, is SO bloody daft!
Dave.
60's guy
Well-known member
There is a documentary film of the life and career of Tom Dowd that is well worth viewing. Tom Dowd recorded the Allman Brothers at a time when they had no idea who Tom Dowd was and what he was about to bring to the table when he recorded them.
Watch this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z61zU5ljP08
Jaimoe explains it very well that Tom Dowd knew how to record the sound he heard in the live room by simply listening and making adjustments at the board.
Watch this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z61zU5ljP08
Jaimoe explains it very well that Tom Dowd knew how to record the sound he heard in the live room by simply listening and making adjustments at the board.