Serious Acoustic Pickups

C

cmhansen

New member
I've looked through the search function, read the latest thread and can't really find what I want. This is the closest I could come up with. A post by Light.

Combination Systems

Is exactly that. A combination of multiple systems. The most common choice these days uses a piezo pickup and a small microphone inside the guitar. Less common is a magnetic pickup with a microphone. Michael Hedges used a Sunrise magnetic pickup with a Hot Dot system, which is remarkably similar to what Taylor is doing with their new system. Both Fishman and L.R. Baggs are making combination systems. Personally, I feel that very few players are going to get enough benefit from these systems to make them worth the money you put into them (well over $500 after you buy all of the components and pay for the installation). They can sound amazing, but if you are not using them frequently, you will not be able to learn them well enough to really get the most out of them.
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I am a finger picking guitarist. That's all I really do. Not aggressive as Hedges or Emmanuel. More the Bensusan or DeGrassi style. So I am looking for a serious system when I start playing live, getting as close to a natural acoustic sound for the Taylor 710 as I can get with the available technology. I know, I know, a mic is ideal, but when you are moving around there's not much you can do.

The Sunrise pick up sounds good, but could find no info on the Hot Dot system referred to in the post. So I'm wondering if another mic would work in conjunction with the Sunrise? Something similar to the Fishman ellipse system mic?

I see that Leo Kottke has both a undersaddle and a Sunrise in his setup. Don't know whether he uses them in conjunction, or if it's because of the different rooms he plays. Could a piezio and magnetic be a possibility?

Should I just go with the Fishman Ellipse system or similar LRBaggs system?

Plan on getting a good pre amp later, but that's for another thread.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks
 
I had an LR baggs transducer put in a Martin DX-1. A volume wheel was installed right inside the sound hole edge. The trasnducer is great for getting that pick attack. I will blend it coupled with a mic for recording. Of course the mic is going to capture the sound from the body of the guitar. In the mix the transducer is 1/2 or a 1/3 of what the mic does.

THat being said. A dual system that had volume controls for both parts would be good.
 
There has been quite a bit on this in the past. Not sure why the search function hasn't turned up anything useful.

I will surmise what I always advise. The best way of producing a good acoustic sound is with a decent mic. You don't need or want a microphone inside the guitar. In fact that's the worst place to use a mic. If you want to have an on board system look for a decent soundhole mounted pickup and use it in conjunction with a decent acoustic amp and pre or direct into a good desk... If you have the time and patience mix that signal with an external mic. Fishmann and Baggs are all I use these days. Under saddle pickups sound "quacky" and are not my cup of tea.
 
I guess it was around '75 or '76 when I got my long since stolen Sunrise, it was one of the first half dozen or so made.....in the back of Westwood Music. Combined with an internal mini condenser mic (Sony back then) it was a great combination for shows, with the Sunrise for monitors and the mic for the house. Things haven't changed all that much since and it's still a good way to go. If you're not going to split the system though you'll need to try usual suspects; Fishman, K & K, Baggs, etc. to see which one fits. It would be good to try as many amps and preamps as possible as well.

Sometimes the amp changes everything. For instance, I've been using a Fishman SoloAmp a lot lately and though my acoustic guitars all have on board preamps, my banjos, mandolins, etc. don't. For whatever reason, I'm getting great sound with the Fishman without using preamps, whereas with my Bose L1, or other PA's, that wouldn't be possible.
 
I had a brief trial subscription to Acoustic Guitar magazine, and I saw an ad for what appeared to be the ideal solution. It was a small condensor mic on a little clip that attached to your guitar in such a way that it hung over the 12th or 14th fret. I'm not sure the details on how it attaches or what kind of quality of mic it uses, but it seems to me that would be the ideal way to capture the natural sound of your guitar since it's the closest to how we mic acoustic guitars in the studio.

Here we go, here's Acoustic Guitar's review of what I'm talking about:

http://www.acguitar.com/article/default.aspx?articleid=24053

It might be worth an audition.
 
I have Highlaner Inside mics and IP2 transducers on my classical and 5 string abg. I really like the sound for live and recording with minimal feedback problems.
 
Hey thanks for all the replies guys.

I would love to use a mic but I stand and move around a little bit when I play live. Similar to what Hedges did. So a external mic is kind of pointless in my situation.

The link with the mic was interesting but I just can't see me clamping a mic to the guitar like that. I'd always be afraid of knocking it off right in the middle of playing.

Thinking I might just go with the Sunrise pickup for now. Maybe run that through a Sunrise pre or a D-Tar preamp or a Rane MP33 or AP13, if I can find one of them. Afraid the Pendulum preamp is a little to steep right at the moment.

Not planning on using a amp. Just going direct to a little mixer.

Thanks again. :D
 
Quote:
Combination Systems

Is exactly that. A combination of multiple systems. The most common choice these days uses a piezo pickup and a small microphone inside the guitar. Less common is a magnetic pickup with a microphone. Michael Hedges used a Sunrise magnetic pickup with a Hot Dot system, which is remarkably similar to what Taylor is doing with their new system. Both Fishman and L.R. Baggs are making combination systems. Personally, I feel that very few players are going to get enough benefit from these systems to make them worth the money you put into them (well over $500 after you buy all of the components and pay for the installation). They can sound amazing, but if you are not using them frequently, you will not be able to learn them well enough to really get the most out of them.


the hot dot system quoted may be the K&K pure system which i have in my martin HD28,
fantastic system uses three individual miniature mics under the bridge placed between 1st and 2nd, 3rd and 4th, and 5th and 6th strings the system is great because it gives you the true sound of your guitar, ive been using it live for over a year now and well impressed but you have to be carefull of volume it can feed back, but keep it low and add the sunrise for top end go stereo and your good to go

and 5th and 6th strings
 
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