Recording (electric) bass for the non-bass player

Armistice

Armistice

Son of Yoda
Hi there...

As a guitarist who plays bass when I need to on my recordings, which are acoustic guitar heavy, I'm struggling to get "cut through" on the latest stuff I'm doing, which will often have 6 channels of 3 acoustic guitars playing approximately the same thing...

I'm DI-ing the bass into a channel strip into the recorder.

I'm assuming this is due to a combination of the following factors:

1. Lower frequencies from the acoustic guitars in abundance
2. Not being a good enough bass player in terms of volume control - the very low notes and very high notes seem to be generating louder signals for the same amount of pluck

I can EQ both the bass and acoustic guitars a bit to cut down the competition, but I like the big acoustic sound complete with low end and these are primarily acoustic songs so only so much I can do

I can compress the bass a bit to work on #2, but jeez I seem to be hammering it majorly to get it under control...

I can work on being a better bass player in terms of getting an equal volume on all notes thus reducing the need for compression...

Anything else by way of tricks and techniques I should be aware of? It stirkes me that I haven't had this level of problem before, but haven't tried to record exactly this style of music before either...

Cheers:drunk:
 
I went through the same teething period, and unfortunately, using compression was the best solution. But another avenue I explored was the set up of the bass itself. You're an acoustic player, so this will be different. But for me, as an exclusive electric player, having a straight neck with low action (which works awesome for electric guitar ;)) gave me a bass that buzzed and flapped out when I started digging in. So, I had to rethink how I approached playing bass. If you're hammering away, and not buzzing madly, maybe your action and neck aren't set up to play 'effortlessly'. The less you have to get mad and fight that bass, the better it ends up sounding. Or that's how it works for me anyway.
The bugger is finding a compressor that works great for bass. The Diamond BCP-1 or the EBS Multi-Comp are pretty freakin' awesome.
 
Good point ranjam... I bought the bass about 20 years ago, it's on about its third set of strings in all that time and I've never adjusted anything...

Probably worth me having a go a setting it up properly by now.. might make the playing easier, which might make some of the other stuff easier...

Task for the weekend!:laughings:
 
Say Armistice, This may be a good time to try your hand at parallel compression.

Or maybe invite an acoustic bassist come in to do the tracks ;) Nothing complements acoustic guitar more than an up right bass.

I'm sure you can find one that will do this for the love of it. Maybe a little bow action too!

Just put an omni microphone about 2 or 3 feet out in front of it facing straight up and about 2 or 3 feet off the floor. The rest will be history.







:cool:
 
As a bass player I'll quote one of the credos on the Warwick forum: BOTM.

Bring Out The Mids. Check on that forum, you can lurk, join, whatever, lots of info in cutting. We bass players are always competing with guitards who seem to think making people's ear bleed is a good thing.

What kind of bass you using? A lot of people think the bass is very one dimensional, it's very multi layered. I love these people who put together a monster studio with thousand dollar mics then get a drone like a Squier bass and think that'll cut it. My Buzzard or Dolphin on mediocre recording gear will bury a Squier on Anything.
 
It's a Schecter Strategy.... black! About all I can tell you... think it's probably a copy of a Fender of some sorts, but I wasn't really paying attention at bass school...

I tried re-recording with a more middy sound over the weekend and it cut through better, that's for sure - it'll do for now but it's a busy busy bassline and it needs to cut through more, I think.

I still have sore hands from the last attempt! Mongrel things....

Moresound... what's parallel compression?

I don't know any acoustic bass players... the only reason I'm doing it at all is that the songwriter has this cool bass riff for part of the song but can't actually play bass very well... so I've taken his riff and worked out other bits for the other bits of the song... I'll know tonight whether it passes muster... at least I can say... "Well you do it then!" if he doesn't like it... but I'm sure he will...
 
Another weird way to compress is to side chain to something else, like the kick. I've done that lots, and yep it's a PITA, but the subtle difference can be a game saver. Run two compressors, and side chain a graphic EQ into each. Have the lows compressed more. It's a hassle, and a lot of work for sometimes dubious results. But my time is my own to waste, so I do the weirdest 'stuff' every recording. Maybe most of it is the power of suggestion, but I think it makes a difference to my recordings.
The other side of it is what happens after that Schecter. I mostly use a J-Bass with AllParts Razor 'hot' pickups into a SansAmp RBI. The RBI has a loop, so I can compress away. But the point is a hot signal EQ'd and compressed made it work wonders for me. I don't get fatigued after wrestling a bass trying to be heard in the mix. YMMV. Must be of legal age. If symptoms persist, consult a physician.
 
Ive only recorded my real base a couple of times and parallel compression is a great way to get a balanced tone...for me anyway..

The parallel side gets totally squashed though...Im sure thats not the correct way but Ive just finished the base on two tracks like this and it sounds about as good as Im going too, took me months to stop using a plectrum :o

I side chain as well but normally the kick to the bass compressor and the bass to any pads or strings...I use a Korg box...its old but sounds good
 
Armistice said:
2. Not being a good enough bass player in terms of volume control - the very low notes and very high notes seem to be generating louder signals for the same amount of pluck
Click to expand...
What you're describing is most often caused by dead strings. Try a fresh set of DR or other quality brand string.

Unless you're purposely going for a Motown kind of sound...
 
LDS said:
What you're describing is most often caused by dead strings. Try a fresh set of DR or other quality brand string.

Unless you're purposely going for a Motown kind of sound...
Click to expand...

I think the strings on my long scale are the ones it came with in the mid nineties lol :o
 
If you're trying to really bring out the "bass" part of the bass... Sub 100 Hz kind of stuff...

This can really adjust the foundation of your recording space, location and presence of any walls, windows, et cetera if you're planning on boosting. Never say never, but use caution. Sub bass is dangerous.

If the sound of your bass is too big or too small you can go fishing with a parametric for low midrange. 200 to 500 Hz might be the area to look. I'm not talking about "cut", but sheer "size" and "Biggness". Remember Fletcher Munson and crank your monitors to around 85 dB SPL once in a while. The bass should be "there" at lower volumes without stomping on everything else at higher volumes. The big, thick bottom end is actually somewhere in the low mids.

Fender basses, especially precisions are notorious for having almost guitar like upper midrange and are used all over all kinds of rock music for this reason. The amount that the bass is going to cut is probably somewhere more in the region of 1 to 4 kHz. You need something going on here. Not enough will make the bass sound flabby. Too much will screw up everything. If you're trying to play "lead bass" like Stanley Clarke or something, you need to rely on this range pretty heavily.

If you're trying to play lead bass in a busy mix with lots of other main instruments, God help you. You just might be screwed.

Great bass sounds are okay, but it's tricky to get it right.

Compression is probably going to be a big help. Not sure if I'd use parallel compression for a bass, but I've had good results from going very gently. 2:1 to 4:1 ratio, very small amounts of gain reduction. If you have to repeat this 8 times to get the bass to sit just right, no worries. Unless it kills the life of the sound. Zero to ultra smashed in one step is more likely to kill you than 8 smaller steps. Unless you have a Distressor or PBC 6A or something with a really soft and spongy threshold/knee/ratio thing going on that can give you ridiculous gain reduction without killing you.

These are just suggestions, of course. Food for thought.

Good luck!
 
Bottom line, don't expect a Schecter to sound like a Warwick. Schecter's are decent basses, I'd get a Rockbass myself. If the bass won't produce the tones needed to cut through there you are.
 
Greetings fellow Terror Dweller,
There are a few things to do to help:
1) get a Behringer Vtone BDI21 - super cheap DI & modeller. Set it up to any of the presets you like then tweak it a bit to satisfy you GOING IN;
2) record
3) in your parametric EQ cut at 100hz by 6db & a Q of 3;
4) at 200hz boost 5bd at a 3 Q;
5) at around 3khz put a 6 or so boost at Q 3;
6) with the tracks playing back slide the 3khz higher or lower until you get the bass cutting through the mix (3khz works for me beacuse of the tone of my guitars) &
7) at the freq you ended up selecting cut a few db from the guitars of whatever it is that's hogging that range.
Now when you solo the bass track it's sound a bit rattly, noisy & trebly but back in the mix it should sit up a bit better.
The 100 & 200 thing is a Motown engineering thing - it moves the energy up from the maostly inaudible zone to the low but audible zone.
The 3khz is what works for me have a listen to The master on my Soundclick page for an example of it working.
 
i had one of the V tone pedals, its was pretty goo and only $25...surprising little thing...until I put the wrong power supply in it

cheap behringer crap...imagine not being able to take a boost of the wrong power :D
 
Mr. Obvious chimes in

I know you know this, but it's amazing how many folks forget it:

As rayc alluded to, a bass that sounds good in the mix, is very likely to sound like crap solo. Some guys will spend a bunch of time obsessing about what it sounds like solo, then try to fit that into the mix. Pretty much wasted time, as you're likely to have to undo everything you just did. Now, if the bass has a solo, then you're going to have to tweak that part separately. You may also have to do different tweaks at different parts of the song, based on what else is going on.

Yeah, it's a pita. Good luck.

There's always midi, you know. :D
 
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