Neck and fret question on 76 LP Custom

Mickster

Mickster

Well-known member
Hey everyone.......I've got a 76 LP Custom and it's looking like it could use some fret work or maybe even a re-fret. My first question is.......will the neck binding be damaged by a re-fret???

Next question please........I LOVE the neck and scale on this LP. In all these years I've never found a better neck IMO. However.......the LP is getting heavier as I get older...........yes....I know.....don't complain.......but it is feeling SO heavy sometimes. I might cut back on how much I play the 76.....so I thought I might pick up something else to play on. I've tried lots of guitars at CG. Maybe I'm just being blind......but somehow the necks don't feel like the LP. I know the radius of this one could be special somehow.......or the frets could be special.......but can anyone point me to a guitar that might feel similar (and sound similar) in the Gibson family.........and might be lighter as well? I know....seems like a dumb question right? Just go try out some at GC. No luck there....so it must be me.
 
You'd just have to try a bunch of guitars IME. Those LP necks, while some folks like to classify them as 50s, 60s, whatever, are not uniform enough to say go play this one. And, as far as weights, well, they can vary a couple pounds either way, so some regular LPs are sub 9lb, i.e., into heavy Fender area, and some are over (or well over!) 10. If you've got a heavy one, there's probably one out there that can take quite a bit of weight off if you just find it. (My LP 2010 Traditional was 8.8lb, and bearable, but compared to my 7.2lb Tele, I prefered the latter and that LP was gone once I was no longer using it regularly.) Customs always tended to the heavier end, esp. those 3 pickup models.

Now, the refret is a good question, and you'll want to find someone that knows how to do it right and has done it right a few times. The original style until just recently had Gibson make the frets end right at the binding (actually fretted before binding was glued on), and the shape of the frets is part of the binding. Those "nibs" are the problem if you want to keep them, because the person doing the refret must cut every fret exactly to length. If you've had several fret levels since new, the reality is the binding has probably been filed down a bit, and matching it with new wire could mean the new frets are filed down a lot more than necessary, just for cosmetics, really. But, that's the way that preserves the instrument as it was originally, assuming it's not been refretted.

The option is to go with the "Martin style" frets, which are put onto a fretboard where the binding is leveled with the fretboard before that first fretting, and so the frets have the tang notched with the top of the fret extending over the binding. I suspect that's what a lot of repair folks would recommend because it's faster and easier (and might be a bit cheaper). Plus it saves most of the new frets. But, it's not original, so if you've got a real special guitar there you should decide if that's going to be a problem for you or possibly impact resale.

Both types of work require more care than an unbound fingerboard simply because that plastic binding is a lot softer than ebony or rosewood, and cleaning out the fret slots, installing the frets, and level and crowning all use tools that are going to easily mar it if used carelessly.

I've done both types, and wouldn't do an LP/Gibson type again, honestly. (Well, I wouldn't do another bound fingerboard unless it's my own - it's strictly a hobby or favor to very good friends these days.) I read that Gibson has transitioned the current models to the Martin style, though I expect the Historic and R series will continue to use the original style.
 
Hey Keith........thanks for that great response. I kinda thought the search for a similar neck feel was always going to be......keep looking until you find it.

About the "Martin style frets". I think I'm a bit confused about how much they'll be "sticking out" as opposed to the originals. And I'm not so much worried about resale value..........just trying to make sure the feel of the neck doesn't change much. On the other hand.......I don't want to "gut" the originality of the LP if I don't have to. It hasn't been re-fretted before but has had some "cleanup leveling" that doesn't seem to have changed the way the binding looks still. As well.......I have no idea who to give this work to. Guess I have some thinking to do huh?
 
Forgot to mention that in extreme cases the binding is removed and redone. You’d definitely want to see someone’s work before that route. Requires good lacquer touch up skills.

The feel shouldn’t be any different if the job is done right, save the new fret height.
 
Thank you sir for the feedback. Very much appreciated. 42 years ago I bought this thing. As I mentioned.......who really knows why........but I've never found a better playing neck for myself..........not to mention how great it sounds. The lacquer has aged yellow over the years......of course. Do they have a lacquer color called 1976 LP? ;)
 
Bottom line. You're never going to find a neck that feels like that one. You may find something you like, but you'll never find one that feels the same.

As to the frets...... Original owner? Have you ever even had the frets dressed?

Depending on the wear, a fret dress may do you right.

For a refret, that will be expensive. Also keeping the nibs is impractical. The fingerboard generally needs to be sanded to ensure it being level and straight. This removes the nibs.

In order of skill level and pricing from lowest to highest here are your three options.
1) refret with fret over the binding.
2) refret and rebuild the nibs (yes that can be done)
3) refret, re bind, and do finish touch ups
Done well it looks like it came from the factory.
Good luck :)
 
Gretsch Duo Jets with Filtertrons (humbuckers) might be a good option for you. Much lighter than a LP and otherwise pretty similar scale, etc. Also there are custom builders (Fano, etc) who make things that might work.
 
RFR said:
Bottom line. You're never going to find a neck that feels like that one. You may find something you like, but you'll never find one that feels the same.

As to the frets...... Original owner? Have you ever even had the frets dressed?

Depending on the wear, a fret dress may do you right.

For a refret, that will be expensive. Also keeping the nibs is impractical. The fingerboard generally needs to be sanded to ensure it being level and straight. This removes the nibs.

In order of skill level and pricing from lowest to highest here are your three options.
1) refret with fret over the binding.
2) refret and rebuild the nibs (yes that can be done)
3) refret, re bind, and do finish touch ups
Done well it looks like it came from the factory.
Good luck :)
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Hi RFR......yes.....original owner. I had the frets dressed a long time ago but am now being told it needs a number of new frets. I think that's correct. I've only brought it to one place so maybe he's not 100% correct. The place I brought it to to take a look at it is a guitar repair shop that's been in business a long time. The only other option I am aware of in my area is GC. I don't trust them but I guess I could have them take a look.

Never thought much about needing a fret replace. Figured it was no big deal. For my axe it seems.......it is. Appreciate the feedback sir.
 
Mickster said:
Hi RFR......yes.....original owner. I had the frets dressed a long time ago but am now being told it needs a number of new frets. I think that's correct. I've only brought it to one place so maybe he's not 100% correct. The place I brought it to to take a look at it is a guitar repair shop that's been in business a long time. The only other option I am aware of in my area is GC. I don't trust them but I guess I could have them take a look.

Never thought much about needing a fret replace. Figured it was no big deal. For my axe it seems.......it is. Appreciate the feedback sir.
Click to expand...

Never, never, never take it to GC! Low level minimum wage type employees there. :D
Skilled guitar repairmen command a decent wage. Depending on location and the technician, shop rates can run from 50 to 100 bucks an hour. Someone that will work for cheap either has no demand for his services or is starting out building a client base.

Best thing is take it to a shop and specifically ask how it' going to be done. Follow your gut on the answers. His answers will either give you confidence or drive you away
Lol. :D
 
Mickster said:
Hi RFR......yes.....original owner. I had the frets dressed a long time ago but am now being told it needs a number of new frets. I think that's correct. I've only brought it to one place so maybe he's not 100% correct. The place I brought it to to take a look at it is a guitar repair shop that's been in business a long time. The only other option I am aware of in my area is GC. I don't trust them but I guess I could have them take a look.

Never thought much about needing a fret replace. Figured it was no big deal. For my axe it seems.......it is. Appreciate the feedback sir.
Click to expand...

A follow up post.
I've done all three methods but none are as hard as refretting a 50s maple neck strat without disturbing the original lacquer finish. :)

If yours was a newer les paul I'd say go with the fret over binding method. Being a 70s, which is now vintage and has some financial value, getting it to be an 'invisible' fret job. Is desirable.

Rebuilding the nibs is a process where you're adding the binding plastic and melting it into the original binding with acetone. It takes a bit of skill, as an idiot can end up just melting your finish instead. Lol:D

On your 'partial refret', I'm not a big fan of that unless you have some NOS fretwire that's the same as Gibson used.
Let me guess, you have deep divots in the 'cowboy chord' area.
Anyway feel out whoever is going to possibly be getting the work, and stay away from GC. :D
 
Hahahaha........I really have to laugh because you're 100% correct about the cowboy chord area!!! 42 years ago when I bought it new those were pretty much the only chords I played. Over the years I began to play all the other positions and today some of the upper frets are showing too much wear as well. As for GC........I'm with you on that. I'm actually worried to even let them look at it.

42 years ago in Los Angeles in bought it from GC there. That's the last time GC has seen it.

Once again....thanks for your feedback. It's helped me out a lot.

Mick
 
I checked on having a bound l.p. neck refretted, by the best fret guy in the state. (Did a superb job on my strat). There are 2 ways he can do it he told me. The first way is to remove the frets while keeping the old neck binding intact. Then, he would refret. The binding, though still running down both sides of the fretboard, would not be over the ends of the frets like it was originally.
That is reasonably priced.
The other way is to remove the old binding, refret, and then rebind. The binding would cover the ends of the frets like original.
Very expensive.

He told me that most people opt for fretting over the old binding but some insist on the binding covering the end of the frets for original appearance sake.
 
I checked on having a bound l.p. neck refretted, by the best fret guy in the state. (Did a superb job on my strat). The are 2 ways he can do it he told me. The first way is to remove the frets while keeping the old neck binding intact. Then, he would regret. The binding, though still running down both sides of the fretboard, would not be over the ends of the frets like it was originally.
That is reasonably priced.
The other way is to remove the old binding, refret, and the rebind. The binding would cover the ends of the frets like original.
Very expensive.

He told me that most people opt for fretting over the old binding but some insist on the binding covering the end of the frets for original appearance sake.
 
Thank jimi..........I'm sitting here looking at my LP and wondering what the heck it would look like not to have the binding over the frets. Seems like it wouldn't look right.....you know? I know that only myself and a few LP guys might ever notice.........but I think I'd really hate myself for changing the looks like that. I have to search online to see if I can find any pics of the frets showing like that.

Thanks for your input.
 
Mickster said:
Thank jimi..........I'm sitting here looking at my LP and wondering what the heck it would look like not to have the binding over the frets. Seems like it wouldn't look right.....you know? I know that only myself and a few LP guys might ever notice.........but I think I'd really hate myself for changing the looks like that. I have to search online to see if I can find any pics of the frets showing like that.

Thanks for your input.
Click to expand...
The way it would be done would be to have the frets over the binding, like Martin does. Here's my guitar before I was done doing a partial refret a couple months ago.
martinfrets.jpg
This is what most folks would do on an LP, but it's definitely going to be noticeable as non-original.

If, as I seem to read, the majority of the wear is in the first few frets and it's never hasn't had the frets leveled multiple times, I would probably do a partial refret and fit the new frets in between the existing nibs. Tedious, but not impossible. Certainly a lot less risky that pulling and matching binding unless you've done it a lot of times, IMO. That old lacquer is going to chip like a MF and you'll be dabbing to fill for days, never mind the matching, which is not really going to match, since you'll be putting tinted lacquer on to replace naturally yellowed stuff. You'll have retained the style of frets, but I'd suspect the "original condition" part of the guitar's value would suffer the same.
 
Thanks keith.........the pic was what I needed. Although I'd much rather have a full fret job with new matched binding........no matter the cost........my real problem is now trying to find someone who can do it properly. If I compromise on the binding I probably will always dislike it..........but if I have a full new binding put on and it goes wrong........geeeeez. Oh well..........I'll decide and let you guys know.
 
Speaking of the weight problem....

I play a 1988 LP Custom LITE.
They made it for a couple years around then... and I heard there is a recent model.

Mine has an Ebony neck, and it feels the same as any LP of that vintage. But it is LIGHTER.
It is still heavier than my Strat.. but it is not AS heavy. And it still has sustain for days.

Maybe check them out? I think the modern ones are rosewood.
 
Mickster said:
Thanks keith.........the pic was what I needed. Although I'd much rather have a full fret job with new matched binding........no matter the cost........my real problem is now trying to find someone who can do it properly. If I compromise on the binding I probably will always dislike it..........but if I have a full new binding put on and it goes wrong........geeeeez. Oh well..........I'll decide and let you guys know.
Click to expand...

Im wondering how this is going. Seems like major surgery. What kind of refund of slop work is there? Insurance?
A friend of mine sent his Eric Johnson neck out and the dude made it worse. He had to have it done twice and it was only the laquer/nitro stuff.
 
CoolCat said:
Im wondering how this is going. Seems like major surgery. What kind of refund of slop work is there? Insurance?
A friend of mine sent his Eric Johnson neck out and the dude made it worse. He had to have it done twice and it was only the laquer/nitro stuff.
Click to expand...

CoolCat.......I’m still looking for a shop that I can trust. Where I live in South Florida seems to have scarce possibilities. Or maybe I’m just being too cautious. I guess I may have to send it away for the work and that makes me nervous too. I have friends and family up in the NY NJ area that I visit. Anyone happen to know of a good shop up there? In the mean time.......I’m using my Strat and sometimes my Ric 325. Obviously neither of them is a LP.
 
Have you tried checking out the les paul forum. There are a lot of les paul players there from all over the USA. Somebody there could probably steer you to a good local fret man.
 
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